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Why I stopped reading HN (2010)

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Re: Why I stopped reading HN (2010)

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read Slashdot nearly every day for quite a few years, stepping away at some point in the 2000s. That particular aspect of the moderation system sounds good on paper, but was rather useless in practice. Essentially, what "matters" is that people are upvoting or downvoting a particular post. Theoretically, it's good to have a bit of additional metadata telling us why they're doing it: i.e., do they find the post Funn…

>For example, it would have been perhaps useful to filter out all of the "Funny" replies on Slashdot The interface did indeed allow you to do this. At least, I remember it being there in about 2001. Additionally, the metadata on voting was particularly important for meta-moderation which other platforms don't really have. Users were (at random) shown a comment that you've voted on and your vote. They then said whethe…

I thought metamoderation was a brilliant idea, but I'm not sure if it had practical benefits.

It's certainly very interesting to talk about, at least for me!

Starting with the results and working backwards, I didn't find the results of moderation+metamoderation on Slashdot to be superior to subsequent sites like Reddit and HN that skipped the metamoderation portion.

Why? I think metamoderation on Slashdot was ultimately redundant. The metamoderators were also the moderators. So your moderation was being moderated by the moderators that moderated the posts. The metamoderation was not really of a higher quality than the moderation, so it didn't really add much.

Metamoderation was good at flagging grossly incompetent moderation, such as somebody seeing an ASCII swastika and upvoting it. However, as long as the community as whole is relatively healthy, that sort of poor moderation would be rendered moot anyway; such a post on Reddit would receive perhaps 98% downvotes and 2% upvotes, it's not clear to me that preventing that tiny 2% minority from voting in the future would be demonstrably better than simply drowning them out which is what happens by default anyway.

Metamoderation could perhaps be useful if the metamoderators were guaranteed to be trusted, high-quality users.

Slashdot tried to do something like that; IIRC you got the opportunity to meta-mod after you were up-modded yourself, so theoretically "better" posters were doing the meta-modding, but in practice I think this just added an extra layer of echoes to the echo chamber.

Re: Why I stopped reading HN (2010)

#162

These sentiments are quite familiar to me. That's why I've been building my own HN copy ( https://hackerdaily.io ). It shows all posts per day, which has a few benefits: 1. It doesn't become an addictive slot machine that updates every minute. 2. The conversations have already happened, which makes it easier to see which threads are interesting and informative and which are not. It also uses an outline.com like style…

Thank you for that tool. I'd suggest on a post to add a link to the original page on ycombinator.com, in case one wants to read it there.

In the same style, I like to use the "top 10/20" on https://hckrnews.com/

Re: Why I stopped reading HN (2010)

#164
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ditto. On Reddit even a percieved differing opinion results in hate mail, insulting and shouting. It's one of the reasons I never signed up to Twitter.

Twitter has to be the worst major platform. It is a rollercoaster of misery, disgust, and annoyance. And there isn’t even a proverbial nugget in the turd to make it worth it.

Nah, there's a lot of nuggets there. Keep away from the political trash and follow people who post interesting things that you like. For example, I like old video games, so I follow people who talk about old video games.

This guy posts cool, obscure Mario trivia: https://twitter.com/MarioBrothBlog

A wiki about cut content in old games retweets cool new finds: https://twitter.com/CuttingRoomWiki

This non-profit posts articles about classic gaming: https://twitter.com/GameHistoryOrg

Oh and the Homestar Runner guys started making content again, on Twitter: https://twitter.com/StrongBadActual

There's lots of nuggets. It's not even hard to find them among all the shit. If you're following someone whose content you don't like, just stop following them. One big tip I wish was more obvious is that you can turn off retweets from specific people you follow. So if someone posts cool content themselves, but also retweets a bunch of political trash, you can get the former without any of the latter.

Re: Why I stopped reading HN (2010)

#165
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the subreddits I track with RSS I've yet to encounter anything political or someone not arguing constructively. Is this something with the platform or each forum? I often don't mince words either. After a while in a community one tends to have "seen it all", so it'll be longer between nuggets produced.

How many users subscribe to those subreddits you've mentioned? I have made a similar the observation, I have a few subreddits that are very niche with only a few subscribers -- discussions are very much on point and civil. Usually, the quality and decency of discourse on a subreddit seems to be inversely related to the number of people engaging in it.

Good point. Larger averages and higher numbers will increase noise to signal by sheer mathematical outcomes. I'm on nothing extraordinary, so between 100k - 3M users per forum on reddit. They are heavily moderated, so anything less than on point, is for good and for worse removed / moved to other subreddits.

I do suspect many might be subscribing to forums that invite a bit wider discussions, and that this brings out more commenters but also less technically viable comments. I mainly use reddit / HN for RSS filtering, so is more interested in the news, but always check comments for interesting counterpoints and tips.

Re: Why I stopped reading HN (2010)

#166
post #122

To me a large part of the value of HN is the back-catalog. When I'm researching something I frequently do a site:news.ycombinator.com search on DuckDuckGo to see what HN users have to say about the topic. I've been doing this for a long time, only recently I decided to get over my fear of participating in the internet and created an account to comment now and then when I have something to say. And I can see how parti…

To me a large part of the value of HN is the back-catalog. That's not a very flattering thing to say. I do the same as you. Yesterday I wanted information about Monero and did the site: trick with good results. What I find annoying is the partisan chilling effect. Not just discussions about politics, that I try to avoid because I know it's doomed. But about anything. There is a front-page technical programming discus…

I was surprised that trump being hospitalized for covid hadn't been posted and submitted a link, but it was flagged.

Puzzled I checkd the FAQ, which led me to the guidelines and there I found the magic:

Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.

So politics is mercifully off-topic by design.

check them out: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Why I stopped reading HN (2010)

#167
post #128
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me a large part of the value of HN is the back-catalog. That's not a very flattering thing to say. I do the same as you. Yesterday I wanted information about Monero and did the site: trick with good results. What I find annoying is the partisan chilling effect. Not just discussions about politics, that I try to avoid because I know it's doomed. But about anything. There is a front-page technical programming discus…

Do you have some examples of quality technical comments (conforming to the guidelines https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ) being downvoted to hell? (Not disputing you at all, just curious for some concrete examples.)

I have a lot of examples, so why not show concrete examples? Because then those comments become the discussion and I don't want to go into a discussion that I've already said it's polarized, shaped as a popularity contest and thus rigged.

Maybe it's OK downvoting comments because they're factually wrong. But this has become downvoting comments because the downvoter has a different opinion. As soon as there is a very popular opinion, you can't even state facts that contradict that opinion without being downvoted.

I'm not here to promote some agenda. If I find uneasy to express an opinion, I just shut up, I don't lose anything personally.

Edit: if you really want, you can pass a comment through the barrier, with a lot of pre-emptive disclaimers and anticipating objections, seven paragraphs of socratic explanations and trying to sound so erudite as to seed a doubt to the knee-jerk downvoter. Too much work for simple stuff.

Re: Why I stopped reading HN (2010)

#168

These sentiments are quite familiar to me. That's why I've been building my own HN copy ( https://hackerdaily.io ). It shows all posts per day, which has a few benefits: 1. It doesn't become an addictive slot machine that updates every minute. 2. The conversations have already happened, which makes it easier to see which threads are interesting and informative and which are not. It also uses an outline.com like style…

Minor thing: the number are right-aligned but the element doesn't have minimum size, so they still have a cascading layout instead of a straight alignment.

Re: Why I stopped reading HN (2010)

#169
post #166
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me a large part of the value of HN is the back-catalog. That's not a very flattering thing to say. I do the same as you. Yesterday I wanted information about Monero and did the site: trick with good results. What I find annoying is the partisan chilling effect. Not just discussions about politics, that I try to avoid because I know it's doomed. But about anything. There is a front-page technical programming discus…

I was surprised that trump being hospitalized for covid hadn't been posted and submitted a link, but it was flagged. Puzzled I checkd the FAQ, which led me to the guidelines and there I found the magic: Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's p…

>So politics is mercifully off-topic by design.

And yet, in spite of Hacker News' disdain for both politics and repetition, any story about Julian Assange, including daily posts about his hearing, will remain untouched[0].

What's really off topic isn't politics, but politics HN doesn't agree with.

[0]https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re: Why I stopped reading HN (2010)

#170

To me a large part of the value of HN is the back-catalog. When I'm researching something I frequently do a site:news.ycombinator.com search on DuckDuckGo to see what HN users have to say about the topic. I've been doing this for a long time, only recently I decided to get over my fear of participating in the internet and created an account to comment now and then when I have something to say. And I can see how parti…

Tip:

DuckDuckGo has the !hn bang for searching in the algolia page, so just stick it to the end of your query instead of site:news.ycombinator.com and you are good to go!

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