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Facebook widens ban on political ads as alarm rises over election

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Re: Facebook widens ban on political ads as alarm rises over election

#101

Here is how facebook can solve this issue. By default, each user (including news outlets) should have an area of influence analogous to a square kilometer of travel. This means that any post or share is only ever seen by a dozen people or so. Now, the hard part comes in how you design an algorithm that reinforces community building behavior. Essentially, every troll in the world should start shadow-banned with no way…

Facebook already does something similar to this. Newer accounts have less reach.

That said, thank you for giving an actual constructive, concrete suggestion. Most people persist with vague criticisms like Senator Warren here - https://mobile.twitter.com/ewarren/status/131397864151728947...

Re: Facebook widens ban on political ads as alarm rises over election

#102
post #88

This just seems like too little, too late. Much of the problems I see aren't advertising in the traditional sense, but viral content from sketchy sources. If they wanted to seriously affect this, they would prevent posts from spreading to tens of thousands/ millions of people without being vetted.

Or just a button for 'this is fake news' or some such. Once say 10 people click that they stop it spreading. Bit like the flagging system on HN.

> Once say 10 people click that they stop it spreading.

What will actually happen is that 10 people who do not share your political or societal views will flag that news item irrespective of its true or false status, and we're back to step one. That's why FB tried that "internal commissions of truth"-thingie (or whatever it's called), but obviously that cannot scale and, also obviously, they also have their own biases.

Re: Facebook widens ban on political ads as alarm rises over election

#103

You know, there's only one thing that bothers me more than political organisers spreading fear and misinformation through social networks. And that's social networks becoming "Ministries of Truth", deciding for themselves what information is fit to be shared with the masses, and what must be suppressed. I mean, all the evidence we've seen over the years suggests that Facebook is in no way, shape, or form trustworthy.

I'm bothered that there seems to be a vocal subset on HN who say that freedom of speech doesn't apply to these platforms.

Re: Facebook widens ban on political ads as alarm rises over election

#105
post #99

This just seems like too little, too late. Much of the problems I see aren't advertising in the traditional sense, but viral content from sketchy sources. If they wanted to seriously affect this, they would prevent posts from spreading to tens of thousands/ millions of people without being vetted.

> they would prevent posts from spreading to tens of thousands/ millions of people without being vetted. Mainstream media outlets like the NYTimes or the Washington Post have become too one-sided (I think that if Trump were to say a common-sense thing like "the Earth is round" they'd certainly find something to argue about, like "it's not actually round, round! it's an ellipsoid! Trump is lying!"), at this point appl…

The non-roundness of the Earth is a constant headache to cartographers, but the place which mandates errors is of course China: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrictions_on_geographic_dat...

(I believe they mostly end up being horizontal rather than vertical)

Re: Facebook widens ban on political ads as alarm rises over election

#106
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with vetting is that it's unlikely to be done in an unbiased way. Facebook is a Silicon Valley company with a young staff that leans significantly to the left. As a right-leaning individual this makes me uncomfortable because I know that staff aren't going to separate their politics from decision making surrounding vetting/choosing who gets to do the vetting. Here's a concrete example: Facebook staff, bei…

I'm curious what you consider the "hoax" in "very fine people hoax". Do you disagree with this analysis (linked below) which claims that the "only very fine non-white-nationalist people" Trump were either (a) at a different activity from the one Trump claimed they were doing, or (b) people who weren't there but Trump thought were there. That analysis puts Trump at best misinformed or confused, if not supportive of th…

Go to the transcript it’s clear as day: https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/apr/26/context-trump...

> Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

> Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

> Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down -- excuse me, are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him?"

> Reporter: "I do love Thomas Jefferson."

> Trump: "Okay, good. Are we going to take down the statue? Because he was a major slave owner. Now, are we going to take down his statue?

> "So you know what, it’s fine. You’re changing history. You’re changing culture. And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

First, it’s crystal clear from the transcripts that he’s saying “I’m not talking about the neo-nazis and white nationalists — because they should be condemned totally.” Painting that as one of the “(a) or (b)” options is shamelessly deceitful.

So what does he mean? The city was renaming a park named after Robert E. Lee. Trump is making a totally reasonable point: not everyone protesting taking down a statute of Robert E. Lee is a white supremacist or a neo-nazi. And he’s point is actually prescient. The reporter says he loves Thomas Jefferson. Well, my high school is named after Thomas Jefferson, and just a few years later they’re trying to change the name of the school.

Is Trump wrong that there were people there who were just protesting the name change? Was literally everyone in that crowd a white supremacist or neo-nazi? Maybe but that would be odd. I grew up in Virginia. Lots of well meaning but maybe insensitive people lionize Robert E. Lee. Maybe they all stayed home that day. But it would be fair to guess they didn’t.

Regardless, whether or not those Robert E. Lee buffs were actually present has nothing to do with how to interpret Trump’s statement, because it’s unambiguous. Maybe his speculation was incorrect. So what? That doesn’t mean it’s fair to portray it as an “if not supportive of white nationalists” statement because it’s unambiguously not that.

If the headline was: “Trump incorrectly assumes that good people attended rally, but in reality everyone was a white supremacist” that would have been a good headline. Good commentary about how outdated it is to lionize Robert E. Lee. But instead the media went for an interpretation that was clearly not what Trump meant.

Re: Facebook widens ban on political ads as alarm rises over election

#107

This just seems like too little, too late. Much of the problems I see aren't advertising in the traditional sense, but viral content from sketchy sources. If they wanted to seriously affect this, they would prevent posts from spreading to tens of thousands/ millions of people without being vetted.

Yep but the way Facebook ads work is you can temporarily promote specific content to help it go viral more quickly.

Re: Facebook widens ban on political ads as alarm rises over election

#108

Whenever I read about the potential harms of social media or targeted ads I think of the imagery from Snow Crash describing our retinas as the only exposed part of our brain, offering a direct neural interface for good or for ill.

A truely brilliant book that I too think back to regularly.

Re: Facebook widens ban on political ads as alarm rises over election

#109
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what you consider the "hoax" in "very fine people hoax". Do you disagree with this analysis (linked below) which claims that the "only very fine non-white-nationalist people" Trump were either (a) at a different activity from the one Trump claimed they were doing, or (b) people who weren't there but Trump thought were there. That analysis puts Trump at best misinformed or confused, if not supportive of th…

Because about ten seconds later in the same speech he says he unequivocally condemns white supremacists. But the media (and the democrats in their advertising) cuts off that part of the speech, leaving a false impression in people's minds. This alone is evidence that he wasn't calling white supremacists fine people. Further, it was a large protest over a statue with thousands of people over a whole day, do you think…

What specific people were both “very fine” and marching with Unite the Right? Trump said “both sides” so there must have been some good people on both sides. But I’ve seen their live-streams. The Unite the Right crowd was loudly and consistently shouting racial slurs and calling for racial violence. A very fine person would walk away upon hearing that.

If people honestly supported history they would have asked the historians. The AHA put out a clear statement that taking down statues is not destroying history.

Re: Facebook widens ban on political ads as alarm rises over election

#110
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because about ten seconds later in the same speech he says he unequivocally condemns white supremacists. But the media (and the democrats in their advertising) cuts off that part of the speech, leaving a false impression in people's minds. This alone is evidence that he wasn't calling white supremacists fine people. Further, it was a large protest over a statue with thousands of people over a whole day, do you think…

What specific people were both “very fine” and marching with Unite the Right? Trump said “both sides” so there must have been some good people on both sides. But I’ve seen their live-streams. The Unite the Right crowd was loudly and consistently shouting racial slurs and calling for racial violence. A very fine person would walk away upon hearing that. If people honestly supported history they would have asked the hi…

There were lots of people protesting on that day in support of the statue that had nothing to do with the neo-nazis and white supremacists, in exactly the same way that there were lots of people protesting against the statue who were are not affiliated with antifa.

Those are the people that Trump was presumably referring to, given that he explicitly said he was not talking about white supremacists (whom he condemned totally in the exact same speech).

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