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Pointers from Portugal on Addiction and the Drug War

nytimes.com

21–30 of 107 posts

Re: Pointers from Portugal on Addiction and the Drug War

#21

There was a RAND study many years ago which showed that, from a pure cost benefit point of view, the best way to deal with drugs is through education and treatment, not policing and punishment. Eg Americans today smoke a lot less tobacco and drink less coffee too. Education works!

> drink less coffee

Really? Curious about this, because everyone around me (including me) drinks a metric crap ton of caffeine, either in tea, coffee, or energy drinks.

Re: Pointers from Portugal on Addiction and the Drug War

#22

There was a RAND study many years ago which showed that, from a pure cost benefit point of view, the best way to deal with drugs is through education and treatment, not policing and punishment. Eg Americans today smoke a lot less tobacco and drink less coffee too. Education works!

Unfortunately, I think for many in America, the conversation need not even advance to discussing efficiency, effectiveness or value.

Government propaganda, a good deal of it channelled through TV and Hollywood have so thuroughly established unrepentant drug users as villians that many people want it prosecuted on its face for its immorality.

Lawmakers find it difficult to let up on drug crimes because they are quickly painted as weak and enablers of other crimes. It's the same tirh the death penalty. The problems with it are plain for all to see. But lawmakers feel the need to signal the virtue of "justice" or "strength" and enough voters still respond to that signal. Even in the supposedly lefty stare of Washington where I reside, progress on criminal justice issues has been glacially slow.

Re: Pointers from Portugal on Addiction and the Drug War

#24
post #21

There was a RAND study many years ago which showed that, from a pure cost benefit point of view, the best way to deal with drugs is through education and treatment, not policing and punishment. Eg Americans today smoke a lot less tobacco and drink less coffee too. Education works!

> drink less coffee Really? Curious about this, because everyone around me (including me) drinks a metric crap ton of caffeine, either in tea, coffee, or energy drinks.

I've actually switched off caffeine in a big way since the pandemic started - I have a chance to sleep in later in the morning and get some activity before needing to get straight into work - additionally I can take a break mid-day to walk and clear my head or even shift some hours around and take a quick nap if I need it.

A nice upside to remoting.

Re: Pointers from Portugal on Addiction and the Drug War

#25

There was a RAND study many years ago which showed that, from a pure cost benefit point of view, the best way to deal with drugs is through education and treatment, not policing and punishment. Eg Americans today smoke a lot less tobacco and drink less coffee too. Education works!

> drink less coffee

Is this a good thing?

Re: Pointers from Portugal on Addiction and the Drug War

#26

There was a RAND study many years ago which showed that, from a pure cost benefit point of view, the best way to deal with drugs is through education and treatment, not policing and punishment. Eg Americans today smoke a lot less tobacco and drink less coffee too. Education works!

> Eg Americans today smoke a lot less tobacco and drink less coffee too. Education works!

Are there any scientific facts which would back this?

To me it feels like there have been several other causes to that which were much more relevant. Not allowing people to smoke inside, vaping and smoking getting "out of fashion" were much more successful.

It's just not cool anymore and those who still want to smoke are being confined to disgusting places to do it. Soo...it kinda works against your argument because it was a bad example. The only thing we may take away from it would be that if we'd have made smoking tobacco illegal everywhere, it would have remained cool to do so secretly...maybe.

Re: Pointers from Portugal on Addiction and the Drug War

#27

There was a RAND study many years ago which showed that, from a pure cost benefit point of view, the best way to deal with drugs is through education and treatment, not policing and punishment. Eg Americans today smoke a lot less tobacco and drink less coffee too. Education works!

Unfortunately, I think for many in America, the conversation need not even advance to discussing efficiency, effectiveness or value. Government propaganda, a good deal of it channelled through TV and Hollywood have so thuroughly established unrepentant drug users as villians that many people want it prosecuted on its face for its immorality. Lawmakers find it difficult to let up on drug crimes because they are quickl…

Agreed. Which in my view stems from the perverse need to simplify everything. Some things just aren’t simple.

The “solution” of locking someone up and then walking away is easier than it is to help someone, work through relapses and end up with a healthy individual after X years. The latter is obviously better, and cheaper, but it costs patience and empathy. Things that are in short supply these days.

Re: Pointers from Portugal on Addiction and the Drug War

#28
post #24
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> drink less coffee Really? Curious about this, because everyone around me (including me) drinks a metric crap ton of caffeine, either in tea, coffee, or energy drinks.

I've actually switched off caffeine in a big way since the pandemic started - I have a chance to sleep in later in the morning and get some activity before needing to get straight into work - additionally I can take a break mid-day to walk and clear my head or even shift some hours around and take a quick nap if I need it. A nice upside to remoting.

Yup, I’m in the same boat. I must have reduced my coffee intake from several bad cups from an automatic vending machine to only 1.5 moka (6 cups each) per day.

Still quite a lot of coffee, but it tastes much better.

Re: Pointers from Portugal on Addiction and the Drug War

#29

There was a RAND study many years ago which showed that, from a pure cost benefit point of view, the best way to deal with drugs is through education and treatment, not policing and punishment. Eg Americans today smoke a lot less tobacco and drink less coffee too. Education works!

It doesn't seem that reduction in coffee consumption had anything to do with education, but with increased availability and marketing of carbonated sugared drinks.

Also, in recent years total coffee consumption started to increase again, driven by hip coffee shops.

It's hard to win against billions in marketing.

https://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2007/june/coffee-consum...

https://qz.com/quartzy/1287862/american-coffee-consumption-i...

Re: Pointers from Portugal on Addiction and the Drug War

#30
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They give you a good buzz, especially if you are a relatively opiate naive person. If you happen to have an addict friend that wants to sell their methadone or suboxen to buy real stuff, then it ends up being a lose lose for people trying to stop overall use

Bupe + naloxone doesn't give any buzz and it blocks you from getting high from other opiates. i guess maybe if you were opiate naive maybe it would IDK. but that would be really dumb to take if you want to get high take the real shit Definitely can from methadone especially mixed with a benzo for sure people sell it but they're going to use with or without it. studies have shown that those who don't get long time sob…

Methadone is even more dangerous than the real stuff: just withdraw syndrome can be fatal.
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