This is incredibly sad. My favorite restaurant in the world closed in San Francisco - its such a tough time for that industry.
Mine as well in Toronto.
New York City thinks up to half of restaurants will close permanently [pdf]
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Re: New York City thinks up to half of restaurants will close permanently [pdf]
#22This is especially infuriating if you compare the numbers from Covid with a bad flu season in NY. Twice as bad as the flu is certainly cause to take special preventive measures but not reason enough to ruin your local economy.
Re: New York City thinks up to half of restaurants will close permanently [pdf]
#23At what point will people realize that the lockdown causes more harm than the virus?
Does it? I ask this as a New York resident: how many restaurants is one life worth? I was here back at the peak of the COVID outbreak when there were refrigerated trucks being loaded with bodies because the morgues had run out of space. It deeply, deeply sucks that a lot of restaurants are going to close. I hope that in time others will reopen in their place... it’s an underreported fact that a lot of restaurants clo…
its not the restaurant. its the people. its their jobs, their livelihoods that support their families. im not worried about economic devastation per se. im worried about the aftermath. The poverty that will break apart families and ruin kids lives forever. Come out to vegas and maybe your mind will change.
Re: New York City thinks up to half of restaurants will close permanently [pdf]
#24This is terrible for sure, but it's worth remembering that 60% of all restaurants close within their first year of operation and 80% within 5 years. The restaurant industry in a city like New York is incredibly cut-throat.
There is a subtle (perhaps unintentional) sleight of hand here. 60% of all new restaurants close on the first year. That is very different than half of *all restaurants, even those that have been open for decades, closing in a single year.
Sure, but the same distinction is missing from the city's report. Which half of the city's restaurants are going to close permanently because of covid? Likely those that were on the edge of failure rather than well-established ones.
Re: New York City thinks up to half of restaurants will close permanently [pdf]
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
No one should realize that because lockdowns are to contain and minimize impacts of the virus and the evidence overwhelmingly suggests no matter what the economy gets impacted, this is the way to reduce harm to economic activity the best. Without restricting high spread activities the economy suffers even more as everyone gets sick and hospitals get overwhelmed. What you’re saying is just like saying evacuation order…
We are locking down far in excess of simply not overwhelming our hospitals.
We may have to aim for virus extinction. Simply flattening the curve means we are aiming for herd immunity, but there are worrying signs that immunity may only last a few months, making it possible to recirculate. The science isn't settled, but I think until we know more we should be more conservative.
https://bgr.com/2020/08/11/coronavirus-immunity-common-cold-...
Re: New York City thinks up to half of restaurants will close permanently [pdf]
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does it? I ask this as a New York resident: how many restaurants is one life worth? I was here back at the peak of the COVID outbreak when there were refrigerated trucks being loaded with bodies because the morgues had run out of space. It deeply, deeply sucks that a lot of restaurants are going to close. I hope that in time others will reopen in their place... it’s an underreported fact that a lot of restaurants clo…
It's incredibly generous of you to be willing to give up other people's livelihoods so easily, but isn't really worth much until you would do the same of your own.
My partner lost their job because of COVID. Please don’t make assumptions about people you don’t know.
Re: New York City thinks up to half of restaurants will close permanently [pdf]
#27At what point will people realize that the lockdown causes more harm than the virus?
Does it? I ask this as a New York resident: how many restaurants is one life worth? I was here back at the peak of the COVID outbreak when there were refrigerated trucks being loaded with bodies because the morgues had run out of space. It deeply, deeply sucks that a lot of restaurants are going to close. I hope that in time others will reopen in their place... it’s an underreported fact that a lot of restaurants clo…
I'm also a New York resident, and my wife is a nurse practitioner who worked during COVID.
"how many restaurants is one life worth?"
It would take quite a few restaurants. However, you are ignoring the fact that letting all of the restaurants close will also kill people. I don't know how large this effect is, but we also don't know how many people will get COVID due to restaurants being open. It's complicated.
As a society we are okay with people driving cars, yet we know automobile accidents kill people.
I would ask you: How many car trips are worth one life?
Re: New York City thinks up to half of restaurants will close permanently [pdf]
#28This is especially infuriating if you compare the numbers from Covid with a bad flu season in NY. Twice as bad as the flu is certainly cause to take special preventive measures but not reason enough to ruin your local economy.
You seem to be mixing up cause and effect. The reason COVID hasn't been so bad is because of all the special preventative measures. It's super contagious, still sends 10% of people to hospital, and is killing 1-2% of people. Sitting in the presence of strangers for hours in an enclosed space is a great way to transmit COVID, and this is why indoor dining must be closed.
Re: New York City thinks up to half of restaurants will close permanently [pdf]
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
No one should realize that because lockdowns are to contain and minimize impacts of the virus and the evidence overwhelmingly suggests no matter what the economy gets impacted, this is the way to reduce harm to economic activity the best. Without restricting high spread activities the economy suffers even more as everyone gets sick and hospitals get overwhelmed. What you’re saying is just like saying evacuation order…
We are locking down far in excess of simply not overwhelming our hospitals.
Yes, but the point is to not have people get sick and die. Many people die even if they go to the hospital and there's plenty of respirator capacity - respirators are a last-ditch effort for someone who's hardest hit by the disease. This isn't an RPG with inns that always work and take you back to 100% health no matter what.
If we want to say the lockdowns have been worse, let's start by answering:
1. What is the value of a human life, in dollars?
2. What is the cost of a preventable long-term injury? (In terms of diminished inherent value of life, diminished economic impact, whatever.)
3. What is the cost of a life spent without indoor restaurants for months to years?
Take 1 and 2, and weigh them against 3 + the economic losses due to lockdown.
Re: New York City thinks up to half of restaurants will close permanently [pdf]
#30This is especially infuriating if you compare the numbers from Covid with a bad flu season in NY. Twice as bad as the flu is certainly cause to take special preventive measures but not reason enough to ruin your local economy.
At least 10x as bad as the flu based on lethality or IFR. Far more contagious and it’s also most contagious when you have no symptoms. Flu season overwhelms hospitals sometimes by itself. Your numbers don’t add up.