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Vertically aligned carbon nanotubes triple the density of lithium batteries

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Re: Vertically aligned carbon nanotubes triple the density of lithium batteries

#91
post #82

Carbon nanotubes seem to be the real life version of chemical vat accidents or radiation exposure in comic books. I think they also fed some carbon nanotubes to a spider and managed to get stronger silk. Like what's going on here? I'm hoping that the scientists involved know what they are doing because from a layman perspective it just looks like carbon nanotubes can be added to anything to give it super powers.

> carbon nanotubes can be added to anything to give it super powers.

I am fairly certain the super power nanotubes give your lungs is cancer.

Which is a super power in a way.

But super-powered lungs tend not to function so well.

Re: Vertically aligned carbon nanotubes triple the density of lithium batteries

#92
post #91
post #82

Carbon nanotubes seem to be the real life version of chemical vat accidents or radiation exposure in comic books. I think they also fed some carbon nanotubes to a spider and managed to get stronger silk. Like what's going on here? I'm hoping that the scientists involved know what they are doing because from a layman perspective it just looks like carbon nanotubes can be added to anything to give it super powers.

> carbon nanotubes can be added to anything to give it super powers. I am fairly certain the super power nanotubes give your lungs is cancer. Which is a super power in a way. But super-powered lungs tend not to function so well.

Yep. Inhaling carbon nanotubes has similar effects on the lungs as inhaling asbestos from what I've heard

Re: Vertically aligned carbon nanotubes triple the density of lithium batteries

#93
post #30

Battery noob here: Will this achieve the energy density of fossil fuels? In other words, a 50 litre tank of petrol gets me around 500 km. What will a similar volume of these batteries get me?

> Will this achieve the energy density of fossil fuels?

I think non-fossil-derived synthetic fuels have the potential to become a major player in the overall transportation picture.

Liquid fuels have significant energy density advantages. Producing them synthetically should allow for removal of various impurities that cause pollution issues today. And not pulling them out of the ground would get around the non-renewable angle.

To be clear though, I think this situation is different from the big Ethanol push we've had in the Midwest the past 20 years.

Everything I've seen about Ethanol is that it is ridiculously inefficient in terms of inputs vs outputs and basically just exists as a subsidy program for farmers to ensure we have enough food supply to avoid ever having shortages.

But I think synthetic fuel could be a big thing in the coming years, particularly since all automobile infrastructure already centers around easily refillable liquid fuels.

Re: Vertically aligned carbon nanotubes triple the density of lithium batteries

#94
post #6

IF this is true, it would be a massive breakthrough. Truly monumental. Hence, I am skeptical. But otherwise, this would be a massive thing. a 2x capacity per weight advantage of batteries? Without an increase in space? That comes down to doubling the range of EVs, and making electric planes and rockets a lot more viable. A 3x capacity per space advantage means roughly a 3x improvement in your phone and laptop battery…

I would like to see phones and batteries decoupled; i.e., phones without batteries. Most people use phone cases anyway; put the battery in the phone case. Replace the case as desired.

Re: Vertically aligned carbon nanotubes triple the density of lithium batteries

#95
post #56

I had the opportunity to work in one of the world best nano technology lab. My supervisor once told me that he refused to work on nano-structured batteries for an obvious reason: These are impossible to recycle. Science these days is often more about the headline (even better if you do the cover of Science) and less about real (societal) benefits.

Carbon/silicon batteries would be pointless to recycle - ordinary environmental substances (sand and dirt). Just burn them or sequester them. So that's good news.

Re: Vertically aligned carbon nanotubes triple the density of lithium batteries

#97
post #27

Actually good article if you continue reading. Comment from an independent expert: "Research has shown vertically aligned – or even just well distributed – carbon nanotubes have far greater properties than randomly placed carbon nanotubes," said Dr. Shearer. "I am not surprised a x10 in conductivity is possible. Controlling the placement of carbon nanotubes is really the way to unlock their potential. The issue in co…

Even if the cost was x100 of the current technique, if you could double energy density you would find applications. Remember that this is just a part of the total cost of a battery.

Right, there are plenty of places now that would be willing to pay a premium for increased density. The airline industry comes to mind.

Re: Vertically aligned carbon nanotubes triple the density of lithium batteries

#98
post #53
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric airplanes need significantly better energy density.

I don't know. Sure, if you can build batteries with the energy density of gasoline, you can build an electric plane with them. But is this really necessary ? Right now, we have relatively large, relatively fast, jet planes. Do we need that size and that speed to be commercially viable? Could we also run a larger fleet of smaller, more automated planes or helicopters? If there was no kerosene left by tomorrow morning,…

You probably don’t need gasoline density equivalents for short haul flights, but we’re still really far off from where we need to be.

Re: Vertically aligned carbon nanotubes triple the density of lithium batteries

#99
post #83
post #10

Didn’t Maxwell Technologies already announce a similar breakthrough a few years ago, and isn’t that why Tesla bought them? Some patent lawyers are going to wake up to some good news today...

They did the dry electrode thing. That makes manufacturing cheaper but nothing more.

Tesla is using the dry electrode thing. Maxwell has been working on translating supercapacitor tech into battery design for quite some time.

Re: Vertically aligned carbon nanotubes triple the density of lithium batteries

#100
post #75
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"significantly" sells it short. Electric airliners need a couple orders of magnitude of improvement to even come close to viability.

Jet engines are significantly less efficient than electric engines so it’s lithium ion has 1/20th the useful Specific Energy at takeoff, though that gets worse as the flight progresses and fuel is burned or batteries age. On the other hand for ultra long range flights electric jets can cruise as higher altitudes which makes up for some of that. Also having 1/3 the 15,000 km range of some aircraft is perfectly viable.…

An airplane will weigh less, the more jet fuel it uses. A battery powered airplane does not have an obvious way of losing weight in this manner, further limiting range.

Talking about 5.000 km is hard: While it won't get you from London to New York without some post-crash landing swimming, the current largest electric plane can fly ~100 miles at around 114mph, with 9 passagers.

I see that you take the laws of physics into account, but allow me to state this for the sake of the conversation: In order to replace jet fuel, we must match what we could call it's useful energy density (energy/kg * efficiency). While electric engines are probably more efficient, we're still up to 2 orders of magnitude away – that's requires a 50-100x improvement of energy density, while maintaining the needed high discharge characteristics, developing a sufficiently efficient electric jet engine and taking into account the increased weight. All at a price where people won't need to save up for years, in order to visit their families.

While I hope to see a zero emission future in my lifetime (actually a negative-emissions might be needed for at time), I feel like putting batteries into airplanes is a bit too much "Silicon Valley Sophism" – shoving the same solution at each and every problem, rather than figuring out what the core of the problem is.

I do love electric cars, but they are not for everyone('s budget). Perhaps the solution is synthetic fuels, combined with carbon capture and a cheap, clean and reliable energy source, such as nuclear power. I know this isn't exactly cheap or readily available either, but it seems like one would bypass a lot of the issues above, by focusing on the source of the problem: Non-neutral use of carbon fuels.

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