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Teaching our five year old to code by cheating

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Re: Teaching our five year old to code by cheating

#91

Post by cultofmetatron »

boltefnovor wrote: post #7

Kids should be taught programming when they express an interest, and when their brain is ready which in my non-facts based opinion is 11-13 years old. Trying to make kids learn programming without them being interested is about the parent wanting their children to be like them.

I think until a certain age, kids shouldn't really be bothered with programming. I'm hoping to teach my niece programming. for now we sit down with legos and I try to teach her via socratic method how to break down an idea in her head into the sum of parts and to see what lego piece she can use as parts to construct the whole.

Re: Teaching our five year old to code by cheating

#92

Post by nicbou »

schwartzworld wrote: post #71
boltefnovor wrote: post #7

Kids should be taught programming when they express an interest, and when their brain is ready which in my non-facts based opinion is 11-13 years old. Trying to make kids learn programming without them being interested is about the parent wanting their children to be like them.

Hardly. Programming should be treated like reading: an essential life skill. And if you use reading as the example, you can start developing an interest in books before the child is actually old enough to read. The OP isn't taking his daughter through a coding course, just showing her that cool things are capable via coding. What could be wrong with that?

Is it essential though? I'm a competent software developer developer, and programming rarely saves the day for me. In fact, I'd probably have fewer problems if I stopped coding outside of work.

Re: Teaching our five year old to code by cheating

#94

Post by gregorymichael »

ldeangelis wrote: post #74
Deukhoofd wrote: post #5

The script you included doesn't actually work, as you're comparing a string with an integer. It will always return false.

I was going to comment the same thing. It can be fixed by addding a conversion in the if like this: if int(guess) == lulu + boonie: instead of if guess == lulu + boonie:

Thanks for the catch! Should embed a version a REPL that we're not still working on.

Re: Teaching our five year old to code by cheating

#95

Post by gregorymichael »

Moosdijk wrote: post #3

Nice article! I liked the "I can use code to do anything." remark. It's so true! I assume you're the author. How did you pitch the idea of coding with her? While I don't have children yet, I love the idea of coding together with them, but I'm not sure how to get them to do it. Especially with minecraft and other way flashier options available to them.

code.org was a great place to start. making anna and elsa dance using ~logo. dance party. also the book Hello Ruby.

Re: Teaching our five year old to code by cheating

#97

Post by sriku »

jrumbut wrote: post #64
sriku wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In general I think starting from nothing is the original sin of programming pedagogy I think you're right in saying that. Back when I was in school, I learnt a lot by copying BASIC programs from mags and typing them in and then modifying them. I don't think I even acknowledge that early stage much now given that learning strategies have evolved from there. edit: Thinking back to that, it seems to me that one of the…

I know this is naive but I have a lot of hope for Racket in this space. I'm just hoping it gets more institutional support for making educational tools with it. The line numbers definitely help you imagine the computer mechanically reading and executing the lines. I wasn't taught with BASIC so in the few times I've had to modify a program with meaningful line numbers I have often used make or similar to just put them…

Yes I share that hunch too and been trying it with the kids off and on.

The team's work with Bootstrap (https://www.bootstrapworld.org) is actually pretty awesome .. where they're trying to accommodate even kids who may not have access to a computer. One of the best CS educational efforts I've come across. Check out racketcon2020 ( https://con.racket-lang.org/) where Kathi Fisler (co-founder of Bootstrapworld) is keynoting on "data centric computing".

Re: Teaching our five year old to code by cheating

#98

Post by schwartzworld »

alphadevx wrote: post #80
schwartzworld wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardly. Programming should be treated like reading: an essential life skill. And if you use reading as the example, you can start developing an interest in books before the child is actually old enough to read. The OP isn't taking his daughter through a coding course, just showing her that cool things are capable via coding. What could be wrong with that?

I'm curious why anyone would think programming is an essential life skill, considering how many successful people are alive today who cannot code. Another thought: when ML starts getting applied to solving programming (see recent GPT-3 demos for many examples), do you think by the time that 5 year old is 20, programming will still be a viable career for humans?

> I'm curious why anyone would think programming is an essential life skill, considering how many successful people are alive today who cannot code.

There was a time when you probably could have said the same thing about reading.

I'm not talking about programming as a career. Much like reading and writing, you can have a career focused around it, but it has applications in non-technical careers.

Many jobs have repetitive tasks. I've personally had jobs in my life where lots of aspects could be handled by scripts (although I didn't know how to write them at the time). Additionally, a lot of workplaces rely on Excel for key workflows that would be simpler and faster as programs. Computer literacy, much like writing, opens doors. The vast majority of people who learn how to write are never employed as professional writers.

Additionally, like reading and writing, it can be a great source of pleasure. Much like the author, I make little games for my daughter to play on (https://letter-press.netlify.app/snek/ for example). You can create art with code, or treat it as a puzzle solving exercise, or use it to modify your favorite games.

Re: Teaching our five year old to code by cheating

#99

Post by schwartzworld »

nicbou wrote: post #92
schwartzworld wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardly. Programming should be treated like reading: an essential life skill. And if you use reading as the example, you can start developing an interest in books before the child is actually old enough to read. The OP isn't taking his daughter through a coding course, just showing her that cool things are capable via coding. What could be wrong with that?

Is it essential though? I'm a competent software developer developer, and programming rarely saves the day for me. In fact, I'd probably have fewer problems if I stopped coding outside of work.

Depends what you do, I guess. I'd argue that there are uses in most jobs, but you have to know how to code AND know the domain well. There are few jobs that I've had that couldn't have benefited from knowing a little scripting or some basic unix tooling. At least they would have been a little more fun.

Re: Teaching our five year old to code by cheating

#100

Post by jeffrallen »

Today I made this with my daughter: https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/433574144

She was watching closely and asked about important details of it. She saw that "if you don't have what you need, you can make it yourself".

Programming isn't everything. Having the confidence to make the world into what you want it to be is. If programming gets you there, fine. If art, poetry, activism, or welding get you there, so much the better!

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