If doctors were interviewed like software developers • Hacker News Board

Re: If doctors were interviewed like software developers

#41

Post by carlosdp » Wed, Oct 07, 2020, 4:54 PM UTC

user5994461 wrote: post #28

lacker wrote: post #7

On the other hand, if software engineers were interviewed like doctors, anyone who didn’t have a U.S. graduate degree would be immediately rejected. Anyone with great experience in another country would be immediately rejected. That is most of the good doctors in the world! The doctor interviewing process is simplified by rejecting the vast majority of qualified candidates before even interviewing them. I think the f…

I'd love if software required a degree. I have a degree and pretty much everybody I ever worked with has a degree. Looking around the entire floor there's only one person without a degree I am aware of. It's a myth that you can work without a degree, you'd never get a job interview in the first place. Seems to be mostly a US myth by the way, makes sense because degrees are crazy expensive there.

Conversely, some of the best engineers I've worked with either didn't have degrees or had degrees in things like economics. It's pretty common in silicon valley, which should be no surprise given how many titans of the industry themselves didn't graduate college.

Re: If doctors were interviewed like software developers

#42

Post by kogus » Wed, Oct 07, 2020, 4:54 PM UTC

user5994461 wrote: post #28

lacker wrote: post #7

On the other hand, if software engineers were interviewed like doctors, anyone who didn’t have a U.S. graduate degree would be immediately rejected. Anyone with great experience in another country would be immediately rejected. That is most of the good doctors in the world! The doctor interviewing process is simplified by rejecting the vast majority of qualified candidates before even interviewing them. I think the f…

I'd love if software required a degree. I have a degree and pretty much everybody I ever worked with has a degree. Looking around the entire floor there's only one person without a degree I am aware of. It's a myth that you can work without a degree, you'd never get a job interview in the first place. Seems to be mostly a US myth by the way, makes sense because degrees are crazy expensive there.

It is not a myth. About a quarter of developers do not have a degree. Source: https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020#education

Re: If doctors were interviewed like software developers

#43

Post by dudeinhawaii » Wed, Oct 07, 2020, 4:55 PM UTC

zerr wrote: post #15

On a similar note, there was a satirical interview about hiring a carpenter with an experience working on brown rounded rectangles or something like that - can anyone find it?

https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/4k994j/if_...

Re: If doctors were interviewed like software developers

#44

Post by jrootabega » Wed, Oct 07, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

ogre_codes wrote: post #3

"We have a lot of redheaded patients, we're looking for someone who has at least 7 years experience working with redheaded patients on a regular basis"

Looking for a pediatrician for my 1 year old. Must have 5 years experience treating her.

Re: If doctors were interviewed like software developers

#45

Post by vsareto » Wed, Oct 07, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

lacker wrote: post #7

On the other hand, if software engineers were interviewed like doctors, anyone who didn’t have a U.S. graduate degree would be immediately rejected. Anyone with great experience in another country would be immediately rejected. That is most of the good doctors in the world! The doctor interviewing process is simplified by rejecting the vast majority of qualified candidates before even interviewing them. I think the f…

Being less reliant on creds helps newer folks, while more senior folks have to maintain that ability for the sole purpose of interviewing.

To me, if you can't substitute a verified credential or experience in place of a technical interview, it just shows they implicitly prefer newer folks.

Re: If doctors were interviewed like software developers

#46

Post by TwistedWeasel » Wed, Oct 07, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

tpmx wrote: post #6

TwistedWeasel wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

plumbers, electricians, civil engineers, architects, structural engineers, etc. All these occupations have licensing requirements. Why is software different?

Because their fields are mature. Practitioner fundamentals haven't changed in decades, often not even in centuries.

How do you define mature? Is it about stability? There are newer and more modern methods of construction and engineering and the field is always evolving. Maturity in those fields is about consistency and agreements of best practices enforced by standards and regulations. Software is not mature because it's not regulated. If you want software engineering to mature and stabilize, it needs more regulation.

Re: If doctors were interviewed like software developers

#47

Post by iaw » Wed, Oct 07, 2020, 4:57 PM UTC

Dumblydorr wrote: post #32

user5994461 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love if software required a degree. I have a degree and pretty much everybody I ever worked with has a degree. Looking around the entire floor there's only one person without a degree I am aware of. It's a myth that you can work without a degree, you'd never get a job interview in the first place. Seems to be mostly a US myth by the way, makes sense because degrees are crazy expensive there.

How many of the incredibly successful people we know of in the industry were drop outs? I can think of quite a few, and I know of other engineers who thought their CS program was vastly inferior to devoting 100% attention to their company, which they could give maybe 33% to due to classes and undergrad life.

You're describing founders of companies not software engineer employees.

Re: If doctors were interviewed like software developers

#48

Post by marcus_holmes » Wed, Oct 07, 2020, 4:57 PM UTC

user5994461 wrote: post #28

lacker wrote: post #7

On the other hand, if software engineers were interviewed like doctors, anyone who didn’t have a U.S. graduate degree would be immediately rejected. Anyone with great experience in another country would be immediately rejected. That is most of the good doctors in the world! The doctor interviewing process is simplified by rejecting the vast majority of qualified candidates before even interviewing them. I think the f…

I'd love if software required a degree. I have a degree and pretty much everybody I ever worked with has a degree. Looking around the entire floor there's only one person without a degree I am aware of. It's a myth that you can work without a degree, you'd never get a job interview in the first place. Seems to be mostly a US myth by the way, makes sense because degrees are crazy expensive there.

I've been working in IT for 25+ years, no CS degree. I got an MBA after 15 years because it was more relevant.

Re: If doctors were interviewed like software developers

#49

Post by luckylion » Wed, Oct 07, 2020, 4:57 PM UTC

black_puppydog wrote: post #18

johnnyfaehell wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chances of people dying from my web app is super slim. Chances of people dying because I bladly wired their house is and it caught fire is a lot higher. Chances of me dying while developing my web app is super slim. Chances of someone frying themselves with wiring something up when they don't know how is a lot higher.

chances of being miserable in an administrative job^W^Wordinary life because some software product you have to use is making your job worse rather than better are close to 100%. If you only count deaths, yeah, bad programming has negligible impact maybe. If you extend it to general suffering, it's quite a drag on everyone actually. And incidentally, good programming can make a world of a difference, too. So wanting t…

Is bad programming a net negative? I'm not convinced (and it's not just because I'm a bad programmer, I swear!), I think if you only had good programming, you'd have very little programming and that would be concentrated of the areas that the powers that be deem most important: military, finance, police, factories.

Having bad programming gets you a lot of programming. I'd rather have a million people who can each build a house a day that will stand reasonably reliable for ten years than having a thousand people that can each build a house a day that will stand for a hundred years.

Re: If doctors were interviewed like software developers

#50

Post by Regenschirm » Wed, Oct 07, 2020, 4:58 PM UTC

user5994461 wrote: post #28

lacker wrote: post #7

On the other hand, if software engineers were interviewed like doctors, anyone who didn’t have a U.S. graduate degree would be immediately rejected. Anyone with great experience in another country would be immediately rejected. That is most of the good doctors in the world! The doctor interviewing process is simplified by rejecting the vast majority of qualified candidates before even interviewing them. I think the f…

I'd love if software required a degree. I have a degree and pretty much everybody I ever worked with has a degree. Looking around the entire floor there's only one person without a degree I am aware of. It's a myth that you can work without a degree, you'd never get a job interview in the first place. Seems to be mostly a US myth by the way, makes sense because degrees are crazy expensive there.

I don't have a degree. I'm still quite good.

I don't think a degree helps. I have seen plenty of very avg software developres, i wouldn't wanna have on my team, with degrees