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What it's like to join a startup in Japan

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Re: What it's like to join a startup in Japan

#21

Post by rdouble »

mrspeaker wrote: post #2

I was wondering about working in Japan - I'd love to know how the scene/pay/hours/good parts/bad parts/visa acquisition is compared to other countries.

It's hard to get a visa. The pay is bad and the hours are bad, but you can sometimes skip out early because you're the white guy. I don't think it's even possible to get a visa - I just worked under the table. You can't rent an apartment legally without a Japanese guy signing your lease. The scene is weird. If you're white you get lumped in with the gaijin weirdo underclass by default. You end up meeting a bunch of shady characters who you'd probably never have to deal with back in your home country. One interesting detail is that train fare for everyone with a job in Japan is paid for by their employer. But not you. At one point I was paying 3x as much for the train than I was paying in rent.

This is my experience working at a small firm. If you can work for somewhere like Morgan Stanley you'll have good hours, good pay, they'll find you an apartment, pay for your trains, and so forth. You'll still have to deal with the weirdo scene. However, the banking scene is filled with creeps everywhere, so it probably won't be much different people than back home.

My advice to any non-Japanese considering working in Japan is to skip it unless you're a "big in Japan" underground celebrity. It would be great to be a semi-famous DJ or artiste in Tokyo. Working a typical programming job... not so much.

That all said Japan is a really fun place to hang out. It's just not a really fun place to work.

Edit: this was 10 years ago.

Re: What it's like to join a startup in Japan

#22

Post by cdavid »

fvbock wrote: post #3
mrspeaker wrote: post #2

I was wondering about working in Japan - I'd love to know how the scene/pay/hours/good parts/bad parts/visa acquisition is compared to other countries.

the visa part can be (as in many countries - except maybe as eu citizen in another eu country) a bit annoying. as an engineer (programmer) you either need a degree or (documented) 10 yrs+ of work experience. if ou fulfill that you basically have to stick to the checklist of what to hand in in what form like sticking to an rfc. reason i mention this is that i heard of/from quite a couple of people who did not - going…

Getting a working visa is rather easy if you have a company sponsoring you - certainly much easier than for the US for a EU citizen, and much shorter. If the company has experience doing it, it can take less than 2 months between the very beginning and you getting the visa. You are almost guaranteed to get it if you have company sponsorship.

OTOH, anything permanent is a chore.

Re: What it's like to join a startup in Japan

#23

Post by bluedanieru »

rdouble wrote: post #21
mrspeaker wrote: post #2

I was wondering about working in Japan - I'd love to know how the scene/pay/hours/good parts/bad parts/visa acquisition is compared to other countries.

It's hard to get a visa. The pay is bad and the hours are bad, but you can sometimes skip out early because you're the white guy. I don't think it's even possible to get a visa - I just worked under the table. You can't rent an apartment legally without a Japanese guy signing your lease. The scene is weird. If you're white you get lumped in with the gaijin weirdo underclass by default. You end up meeting a bunch of s…

Wow. Can you be a bit more specific? My experience is mostly opposite to yours in most respects, actually, but I've heard similar horror stories so I'm curious to know how you are (were) trying to get by. I don't think you're entirely typical though. Send me a mail if you're uncomfortable discussing here (although it does seem you've already left?)

(The apartment bit is not accurate, btw, and neither is the visa, compared to the States.)

At any rate, just a quick point of order that the parent may not be an entirely typical case. I know a guy working at smart.fm (or whatever they call themselves now) and he's having a good time of it.

Re: What it's like to join a startup in Japan

#24

Post by bluedanieru »

patio11 wrote: post #16
aapl wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So assuming I would be interested in gaining employment in Japan, which I actually am, working for a BFFM in Tokyo would be one of the better options to pursue? Any particular ones that you have heard to be nice places to work?

From HN meetups, which is most of my exposure to the Tokyo tech grapevine, I have heard good things about a gigantic multinational advertising firm and an assortment of finance companies. Tokyo's a big place and every industry you've ever heard of, and most multinationals in those industries, has some presence there.

How do I get into these HN meetups.

Re: What it's like to join a startup in Japan

#25

Post by bluedanieru »

nandemo wrote: post #13
mrspeaker wrote: post #2

I was wondering about working in Japan - I'd love to know how the scene/pay/hours/good parts/bad parts/visa acquisition is compared to other countries.

The Good: very safe country; Tokyo is an amazing city; public transportation is extensive and fairly cheap (no need to have a car); good, inexpensive food; no tipping; if you are a straight guy, dating will be somewhat easier than in Silicon Valley. The Bad: as Robert says, working at Japanese companies can be soul-crushing; IT salaries are much lower than in comparable US areas; foreign web/software companies' prese…

The rent situation is accurate, in that discrimination is not illegal. On the other hand, it is definitely not something that prevents you from getting a decent place full stop, by any means. And none of my married (to Japanese) friends report any trouble at all, for that matter. And permanent residence is certainly on the table if you've been here long enough.

The dating scene is awful though, don't let anyone tell you different :-)

Re: What it's like to join a startup in Japan

#26

Post by bluedanieru »

w1ntermute wrote: post #18
nandemo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Good: very safe country; Tokyo is an amazing city; public transportation is extensive and fairly cheap (no need to have a car); good, inexpensive food; no tipping; if you are a straight guy, dating will be somewhat easier than in Silicon Valley. The Bad: as Robert says, working at Japanese companies can be soul-crushing; IT salaries are much lower than in comparable US areas; foreign web/software companies' prese…

> if you are a straight guy, dating will be somewhat easier than in Silicon Valley. Only "somewhat"? Haven't you read Charisma Man ? Dating in Japan is like paradise for a nerd if you like Asian women. Actually, even Caucasian women are easier to get in Japan because you'll have no competition because all the other Caucasian guys will be with Japanese women.

I have never gotten this. And I've been here eight years. You're wrong afaik :-)

Re: What it's like to join a startup in Japan

#27

Post by rdouble »

bluedanieru wrote: post #23
rdouble wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to get a visa. The pay is bad and the hours are bad, but you can sometimes skip out early because you're the white guy. I don't think it's even possible to get a visa - I just worked under the table. You can't rent an apartment legally without a Japanese guy signing your lease. The scene is weird. If you're white you get lumped in with the gaijin weirdo underclass by default. You end up meeting a bunch of s…

Wow. Can you be a bit more specific? My experience is mostly opposite to yours in most respects, actually, but I've heard similar horror stories so I'm curious to know how you are (were) trying to get by. I don't think you're entirely typical though. Send me a mail if you're uncomfortable discussing here (although it does seem you've already left?) (The apartment bit is not accurate, btw, and neither is the visa, com…

This was 10 years ago. Maybe my comment seems too negative. It wasn't really a horror story. That's interesting if you don't need a guarantor to rent an apartment anymore, I'll have to ask my friends over there about that. When I lived there the housing options were either: have Japanese guarantor, rent from Yakuza owned building in Ugusudani, or pay $5000/m for luxo month-to-month rental. I guess the other non-guarantor option would have been to sub-lease from a Japanese person going abroad for a while.

Re: What it's like to join a startup in Japan

#28

Post by bluedanieru »

rdouble wrote: post #27
bluedanieru wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Can you be a bit more specific? My experience is mostly opposite to yours in most respects, actually, but I've heard similar horror stories so I'm curious to know how you are (were) trying to get by. I don't think you're entirely typical though. Send me a mail if you're uncomfortable discussing here (although it does seem you've already left?) (The apartment bit is not accurate, btw, and neither is the visa, com…

This was 10 years ago. Maybe my comment seems too negative. It wasn't really a horror story. That's interesting if you don't need a guarantor to rent an apartment anymore, I'll have to ask my friends over there about that. When I lived there the housing options were either: have Japanese guarantor, rent from Yakuza owned building in Ugusudani, or pay $5000/m for luxo month-to-month rental. I guess the other non-guara…

Most places still require a guarantor, which basically means you pay the estate agency to act as a guarantor. In light of the fact that key money and other deposit requirements have generally gone down over that past few years (nothing to do with foreigners here this is motivated by Japanese), I think it's a wash.

Getting a place is definitely more a pain in the ass than it ought to be, for Japanese but moreso for foreigners, but I don't think it's quite as bad as you've painted it.

edit: okay things have changed since you've left. I've been here since 2003 and I can confirm that, at least

Re: What it's like to join a startup in Japan

#29

Post by patio11 »

rdouble wrote: post #21
mrspeaker wrote: post #2

I was wondering about working in Japan - I'd love to know how the scene/pay/hours/good parts/bad parts/visa acquisition is compared to other countries.

It's hard to get a visa. The pay is bad and the hours are bad, but you can sometimes skip out early because you're the white guy. I don't think it's even possible to get a visa - I just worked under the table. You can't rent an apartment legally without a Japanese guy signing your lease. The scene is weird. If you're white you get lumped in with the gaijin weirdo underclass by default. You end up meeting a bunch of s…

I slag on being a salaryman, frequently, but we never have these sorts of problems. Visa issues? The CEO will write the Minister of Justice a letter. Problem solved. (I am not joking in the slightest degree.)

Re: What it's like to join a startup in Japan

#30

Post by rdouble »

patio11 wrote: post #29
rdouble wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to get a visa. The pay is bad and the hours are bad, but you can sometimes skip out early because you're the white guy. I don't think it's even possible to get a visa - I just worked under the table. You can't rent an apartment legally without a Japanese guy signing your lease. The scene is weird. If you're white you get lumped in with the gaijin weirdo underclass by default. You end up meeting a bunch of s…

I slag on being a salaryman, frequently, but we never have these sorts of problems. Visa issues? The CEO will write the Minister of Justice a letter. Problem solved. (I am not joking in the slightest degree.)

Your boss must have liked you more than mine liked me. On the other hand, getting paid via a giant envelope filled with cash was pretty cool.
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