Google and Oracle's decade-long copyright battle reaches Supreme Court
151–160 of 433 posts
Re: Google and Oracle's decade-long copyright battle reaches Supreme Court
#152If Google paid some reasonable sum to SUN for using Java in Android, they could have avoided all of this. I bet their lawsuit expenses are now higher.
Re: Google and Oracle's decade-long copyright battle reaches Supreme Court
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you explain to a judge the difference between distributing a library and app code to the user, and expecting the user to download the library themselves and then you combine the app-code and the library afterward, will they care or will they see the two methods as being practically identical in terms of forming a single derivative program out of the library and app-code. In the past people argued that streaming co…
except in the case of libreadline, its highly likely that any Linux user (i.e. bash depends on it) already has the library on the system. I'm not distributing it. But lets get into the weeds a little. Lets say I am distributing it according to all definitions. I'm allowed to distribute GPLd material. I'm allowed to distribute non GPLd material. I'm allowed to distribute them together even (say a linux CD without the…
Technically the derivative work is the combination of the two, not just the non-GPLd portion. Part of the argument that a lawyer would have to do is to define what "the work" is, and arguing distinction in linking technology might not be that great strategy to an non-technical judge or jury. If you present a video player what people likely will see as the work is the video player, not some independent code, independent glue and 20-30 independent library dependencies. As programmers however we might see things a bit different in the same way a painter will look at paint on a canvas.
However I would agree that if there exist multiple interchangeable libraries the argument for two independent work seems to be much stronger. There are for example multiple libc implementations, and for those one could make a case that a program and its libc dependency does not create a derivative work. In practice however I doubt such argument would be much of a benefit in real GPL infringement cases.
The wine project has a rather strong fair use clause regardless of the outcome of this court case, since it would be a rather difficult argument for Microsoft to argue that wine has caused considerable commercial damage. Basically every point of fair use is applicable here, from "Purpose and character of the use", "Amount and substantiality", "Effect upon work's value" and additional values like acknowledgement of the copyrighted source (if the API is copyrightable). Wine is a compatibility layer, not an re-implementation. Courts would naturally have to consider if that distinction is relevant but I suspect they would have a much easier time than java on android.
Re: Google and Oracle's decade-long copyright battle reaches Supreme Court
#154> Google argues that no one should be allowed to claim ownership of this kind of code. Imagine if we took Google's argument seriously and extended it. What if code were inherently less copyrightable when it is more structural and boilerplate-filled? That could be a great thing, but Google themselves might be surprised at how little of their proprietary code qualifies for copyright under this standard. For example, wo…
Re: Google and Oracle's decade-long copyright battle reaches Supreme Court
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If you use the API surface area for the purposes of interoperability with existing software But wasn't that one of Google's original goals for Android? Making porting existing Java apps easy?
Google is making this case, we'll see if the judges buy it. Just because porting Java apps to Android is easier because Google copied the API doesn't suddenly absolve them when it's Google's intention that will decide this case.
Why do you presuppose to know the legal rule that the Supreme Court will articulate in its decision? I mean, you seem to presuppose that the Court will uphold the Federal Circuit on all contested questions of law and only reconsider whether the decision on the facts is reasonable, which is...mighty presumptuous.
It's quite conceivable that Google could win on a more fundamental ground, since the question of whether the API is even protected by copyright or unprotected as a functional element (which also does not turn on Google’s intent) is a love issue in the appeal. They win on that, and the Court doesn't have to touch anything else.
Even if they do need to address the fair use question because Google loses on copyright ability, the Court a lot will turn on the standard of review and the Seventh Amendment as to whether the Court is really probing Google's intent (de novo review) or merely probing whether any reasonable jury could have concluded that the use was fair, as the actual trial jury did here, preserving the right to jury trial. I would expect the latter, the Federal Circuit seems to have gone completely off the rails invoking de novo review to overturn the jury verdict.
Re: Google and Oracle's decade-long copyright battle reaches Supreme Court
#156And before the IBM example comes up, SQL is an ISO standard, that Oracle like every RDMS vendor pays for.
Re: Google and Oracle's decade-long copyright battle reaches Supreme Court
#157Re: Google and Oracle's decade-long copyright battle reaches Supreme Court
#158>This is a complete dramatization. Are you copying 10k lines of code from a licensed code base into your project without permission and using it in your commercial product? To point back to the substance of the thread and Oracle's claims... Google didn't copy any of Oracle/Sun's Java source code base into Android Java. Oracle lawyers acknowledge this. Instead, Google copied the API of function name spellings and also…
In addition to the specific claims and their validity, one fact remains. Oracle bought Sun for the sole purpose of suing Google . Full stop. I used to date someone involved in the case when it was just getting started. Oracle can go pound sand.
Re: Google and Oracle's decade-long copyright battle reaches Supreme Court
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
Phones, billions of devices running various embedded real-time os, gaming like Xbox and playstation, watches, smart TVs, medical devices, space systems, and many other places are not Linux dominated, and many of these have almost zero Linux presence.
> Phones For smartphones, Linux-based Android has the largest market share. It is linux dominated. For less smart phones, there are Linux based operating systems like KaiOS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KaiOS Linux based OSs having 87% market share in india: https://www.androidauthority.com/india-kaios-market-share-88... Global 74% market share for Android: ht…
Google can replace Linux with Zirkon tomorrow and 99% of Android apps won't even notice.
Just like TVs, who cares what OS a smart TV is running.
Re: Google and Oracle's decade-long copyright battle reaches Supreme Court
#160If Google paid some reasonable sum to SUN for using Java in Android, they could have avoided all of this. I bet their lawsuit expenses are now higher.