A socialite who hated washing dishes invented the automated dishwasher • Hacker News Board

Re: A socialite who hated washing dishes invented the automated dishwasher

#181

Post by crumbshot » Wed, Oct 07, 2020, 2:05 PM UTC

rsynnott wrote: post #177

crumbshot wrote: post #162

> She designed her first model in the shed behind her house in Shelbyville, Ill. Her lack of formal engineering education, however, became an obstacle, so she sought out someone who could help. Mechanic George Butters agreed to assist her in building the prototype. So the engineer did all the actual hard work here in coming up with a working prototype, but the wealthy funder takes almost all of the credit, and puts t…

Normally the person who comes up with the idea and basic design is considered the inventor. For anything even vaguely complicated, it's likely that multiple people are involved in building the prototype.

This propensity to give one person all or almost all of the credit is the problem. And it tends to be biased towards either the wealthiest person involved, or the one that just had the idea.

As you note, it is often a team effort, and so the whole team should be rewarded with the credit for the invention. Rather than basically ignoring those whose design and/or engineering expertise were essential to its completion and delivery.

Re: A socialite who hated washing dishes invented the automated dishwasher

#182

Post by vel0city » Wed, Oct 07, 2020, 2:15 PM UTC

prawn wrote: post #147

It amazes me that after widespread adoption of dishwashers, we still build very customised bathrooms into houses that require manual labour to clean each surface - tiles/grout, basins, benchtops, toilets, floors, etc. A bathroom that could be sealed and cleaned as though it was a dishwasher would be great. For everything but the toilet, lightly pressured spray of hot water would probably be sufficient. Throw the towe…

It seems a bit counter-intuitive, but dishwashers are not necessarily self-cleaning. Dishwasher owners really should spend some time every now and then to scrub and clean out their dishwashers, along with running some kind of cleaner through their dishwasher. Mold, scale, and food debris will eventually build up throughout the dishwasher, even if you try to let it air out completely. Proper cleaning and maintenance of your dishwasher will help it last a lot longer than assuming it is self cleaning. I should know, I recently came into ownership of a 12 year old dishwasher which "didn't work". Scrubbing and cleaning the machine led to the machine working for quite a while after.

Re: A socialite who hated washing dishes invented the automated dishwasher

#183

Post by rsynnott » Wed, Oct 07, 2020, 2:16 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #165

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's in the name of energy ratings; using less water at a colder temperature will reduce energy usage. As for the smell "wet dog smell" is usually mold; rinse your plates of food remains before putting it in the dishwasher, clean out your filters regularly (not as necessary if you rinse beforehand), and run a hot, empty cycle with soda crystals. Also, leave it open to air out if it's not running (doesn't need to be o…

If I need to rinse my dishes before hand that defeats the purpose. I'm 90% done with hand washing at that point so I may as well do it all by hand

I wouldn't worry about the rinsing thing with modern machines. Leaving the machine open to avoid mold is definitely advisable, though (some machines have vents for this, but most don't).

Re: A socialite who hated washing dishes invented the automated dishwasher

#184

Post by Chris2048 » Wed, Oct 07, 2020, 2:20 PM UTC

prawn wrote: post #147

It amazes me that after widespread adoption of dishwashers, we still build very customised bathrooms into houses that require manual labour to clean each surface - tiles/grout, basins, benchtops, toilets, floors, etc. A bathroom that could be sealed and cleaned as though it was a dishwasher would be great. For everything but the toilet, lightly pressured spray of hot water would probably be sufficient. Throw the towe…

Dishwashers spray hot water around an enclosed space, how would a bathroom work?

Would teach component (bath/toilet etc) have an enclosure, or the whole bathroom? How much hot water would you need for that? What liability would there be for being inside when it went off?

Probably a tile-crawling robot would be a better bet.

Re: A socialite who hated washing dishes invented the automated dishwasher

#185

Post by leadingthenet » Wed, Oct 07, 2020, 2:25 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #166

leadingthenet wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It uses dramatically less water than washing by hand, if you have a full load.

Unless you rinse first, then hand washing is less water.

But why would you do that? It's a waste of time and energy, in my experience, when the washing machine does a perfectly fine (and often even better) job.

Re: A socialite who hated washing dishes invented the automated dishwasher

#186

Post by rsynnott » Wed, Oct 07, 2020, 2:30 PM UTC

wombatmobile wrote: post #42

redmorphium wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a lot of people tend to think you need to pre-rinse dishes before putting them in the dishwasher. no, you don't: in fact, this can remove the substrate that's needed for the detergent to be most effective. most of my dishes, which I have a lot of: finish eating/drinking, straight in, no sink stage.

How often do you clean the filter in the sump?

Every week or so; takes a few minutes. You'll need to do this even if you 'pre-rinse', btw.

Re: A socialite who hated washing dishes invented the automated dishwasher

#187

Post by prawn » Wed, Oct 07, 2020, 2:31 PM UTC

rsynnott wrote: post #175

prawn wrote: post #147

It amazes me that after widespread adoption of dishwashers, we still build very customised bathrooms into houses that require manual labour to clean each surface - tiles/grout, basins, benchtops, toilets, floors, etc. A bathroom that could be sealed and cleaned as though it was a dishwasher would be great. For everything but the toilet, lightly pressured spray of hot water would probably be sufficient. Throw the towe…

As you say, this is already a thing for public toilets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanisette For a whole bathroom, it would be quite expensive; you'd need a fully watertight room (most bathrooms, even wetrooms, are not) and you'd risk contamination. Would also be difficult to retrofit unless you had a wetroom already. Also the failure modes are quite bad; what happens when the drains clog? You'd need the whole thi…

In my bathrooms, there's already a drain in the shower (the shower is recessed an inch) and in the centre of the main area. They don't clog. I don't know about you, but I don't tend to wash baked-on lasagne from myself in the shower as happens in a dishwasher. I think it would largely be dust and the like if it wasn't left to build up.

I'm thinking these things would be designed for new-builds rather than retrofitted. Recess the floor an inch. Sealed door. Pressure sprays angling down that hit the wall up to a height of around 6-7' or so. Doesn't need to be fully watertight. Run an exhaust fan during and/or after. Maybe have a linear grate/drain at the shower end, and an air spray to help push water as well as dry the tiles.

Seal or hide power points. Cabinets would need a loose seal (they're sprayed, not submerged).

Re: A socialite who hated washing dishes invented the automated dishwasher

#188

Post by rsynnott » Wed, Oct 07, 2020, 2:39 PM UTC

crumbshot wrote: post #181

rsynnott wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normally the person who comes up with the idea and basic design is considered the inventor. For anything even vaguely complicated, it's likely that multiple people are involved in building the prototype.

This propensity to give one person all or almost all of the credit is the problem. And it tends to be biased towards either the wealthiest person involved, or the one that just had the idea. As you note, it is often a team effort, and so the whole team should be rewarded with the credit for the invention. Rather than basically ignoring those whose design and/or engineering expertise were essential to its completion a…

I mean, I think the term 'inventor' is probably pretty unhelpful, in that in the popular imagination it _is_ a lone genius, and you're never going to stop people thinking that.

Re: A socialite who hated washing dishes invented the automated dishwasher

#189

Post by prawn » Wed, Oct 07, 2020, 2:41 PM UTC

Chris2048 wrote: post #184

prawn wrote: post #147

It amazes me that after widespread adoption of dishwashers, we still build very customised bathrooms into houses that require manual labour to clean each surface - tiles/grout, basins, benchtops, toilets, floors, etc. A bathroom that could be sealed and cleaned as though it was a dishwasher would be great. For everything but the toilet, lightly pressured spray of hot water would probably be sufficient. Throw the towe…

Dishwashers spray hot water around an enclosed space, how would a bathroom work? Would teach component (bath/toilet etc) have an enclosure, or the whole bathroom? How much hot water would you need for that? What liability would there be for being inside when it went off? Probably a tile-crawling robot would be a better bet.

Rotating pressure sprays mounted about 6-7' up that spray the shower walls and bathroom floor, aiming diagonally down. Water would quickly drain via floor drains. Besides the toilet, it really only needs to deal with a bit of dust that wouldn't be hard to dislodge if cleaned every few days. I don't think it would need to be so hot that it was an issue if you were caught inside - just like being on the lawns when sprinklers go off.

Powerpoints would need to be sealed. Room would need to be slightly recessed (inch maybe). Cabinets would need some sort of seal.

Or it could just do the shower, which is generally already recessed, has no powerpoints/cabinets/towels. In my bathroom, that would leave the toilet (its own beast), floors (easy to do), basins (bit annoying around the taps) and benchtops (easy).

If a shower had a powered, pressure nozzle, it would probably be easy enough to do yourself once a week while in there.

The toilet is the thing to solve though. My kids are old enough to leave streaks but not old enough to reliably clean them without touching everything they shouldn't!

Re: A socialite who hated washing dishes invented the automated dishwasher

#190

Post by vel0city » Wed, Oct 07, 2020, 2:42 PM UTC

crooked-v wrote: post #77

wombatmobile wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How often do you clean the filter in the sump?

Mine has a line that runs to my garbage disposal, so normally no special cleaning is needed.

Most dishwashers are designed to drain into the disposal, but they usually still have some kind of filter going to the sump before that line. Maybe you have some extraordinary model which truly has no sump filter, but otherwise you should still regularly examine and clean out your sump filter even if your dishwasher drains to the disposal.

The water in the dishwasher is being reused by the pump and sprayer while in cycle. The sump filter ensures no particles larger than the sprayer heads are being sucked up by the pump and pushed through to the sprayer jets, as tough food particles could damage the pump or get clogged into the sprayer heads.