Live data from Hacker News

AI training method exceeds GPT-3 performance with fewer parameters

infoq.com

41–50 of 82 posts

Re: AI training method exceeds GPT-3 performance with fewer parameters

#41
post #7

GPT3's strength is on language generation, so using *GLUE for evaluating it (where encoder type models are just better) and claiming to have 99.9% less parameters is sensationalism.

That's kind of like saying that this super cheap SUV from 2003 is a better off-roader than the latest Ferrari. Like, true statement, but vacuous none the less.

Powerful analogy, but analogies are dangerous. They can obscure what's really happening.

In this case, by analogy, Ferrari made the comparison to the super cheap SUV from 2003. That is, OpenAI compared GPT3 to BERT on the SuperGLUE benchmark, in the paper announcing GPT3 [1].

They did so to demonstrate GPT3's ability to learn a new task given only a few examples of the task ("few-shot learning"). The limited amount of task-specific training data was a signficant handicap that GPT3 was able to overcome, like a Ferrari towing a two ton trailer outperforming an old SUV towing nothing.

What this paper claims is that encoder type models can also achieve few-shot learning. The headline should be "AI training method achieves few-shot learning with 99.9% fewer parameters than GPT3." That's the innovation here, not outperforming GPT3 on a benchmark that GPT3 isn't particularly good at.

1: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2005.14165.pdf

Re: AI training method exceeds GPT-3 performance with fewer parameters

#42
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please explain to me (I don't understand it) why do you think GPT-3 is closed? Yes, they won't share the trained model, but they're sharing the research here[0][1] so you can reproduce easily, aren't they? As I understand it now, it's very fair - training the model is a separate thing from doing (and sharing) the research, is very costly, and would not happen if they were forced to open that too - I also don'…

Yes they tell you how to do it. But training a model of this size requires you to use thousands of GPUs, or wait forever. That will sum up to millions of $$$ in rental and electricity costs.

That seems like the reason why won't they share the trained model. Somebody needs to pay for that, how would they fund it if they just shared it?

As far as my thinking goes, they are open more than enough. Thank you for your input!

Re: AI training method exceeds GPT-3 performance with fewer parameters

#43
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please explain to me (I don't understand it) why do you think GPT-3 is closed? Yes, they won't share the trained model, but they're sharing the research here[0][1] so you can reproduce easily, aren't they? As I understand it now, it's very fair - training the model is a separate thing from doing (and sharing) the research, is very costly, and would not happen if they were forced to open that too - I also don'…

> so you can reproduce easily That's like saying you can look at the Eiffel tower and it's schematics so what's so hard about getting a spare million dollars and building it.

Well, we others can buy a ticket and go see it. Same with GPT-3.

Re: AI training method exceeds GPT-3 performance with fewer parameters

#44
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please explain to me (I don't understand it) why do you think GPT-3 is closed? Yes, they won't share the trained model, but they're sharing the research here[0][1] so you can reproduce easily, aren't they? As I understand it now, it's very fair - training the model is a separate thing from doing (and sharing) the research, is very costly, and would not happen if they were forced to open that too - I also don'…

Yes they tell you how to do it. But training a model of this size requires you to use thousands of GPUs, or wait forever. That will sum up to millions of $$$ in rental and electricity costs.

Looks like a great opportunity for someone to step in and organize a project aimed at recreating that. I for one would be more than glad to donate my GPUs' time for something that would be useful for all humanity, for free.

Re: AI training method exceeds GPT-3 performance with fewer parameters

#45
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me another question is crucial: is it open (i.e. is there an open source reference implementation) or closed like the so-called "OpenAI" products/services?

Can you please explain to me (I don't understand it) why do you think GPT-3 is closed? Yes, they won't share the trained model, but they're sharing the research here[0][1] so you can reproduce easily, aren't they? As I understand it now, it's very fair - training the model is a separate thing from doing (and sharing) the research, is very costly, and would not happen if they were forced to open that too - I also don'…

I submitted a request for access to the GPT-3 API a couple months ago and still haven't been approved.

I don't find that to be very open at all.

Re: AI training method exceeds GPT-3 performance with fewer parameters

#46
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me another question is crucial: is it open (i.e. is there an open source reference implementation) or closed like the so-called "OpenAI" products/services?

Can you please explain to me (I don't understand it) why do you think GPT-3 is closed? Yes, they won't share the trained model, but they're sharing the research here[0][1] so you can reproduce easily, aren't they? As I understand it now, it's very fair - training the model is a separate thing from doing (and sharing) the research, is very costly, and would not happen if they were forced to open that too - I also don'…

This is a very article on the subject of GPT3's 'market position' - https://bdtechtalks.com/2020/09/21/gpt-3-economy-business-mo...

Re: AI training method exceeds GPT-3 performance with fewer parameters

#47
post #45
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please explain to me (I don't understand it) why do you think GPT-3 is closed? Yes, they won't share the trained model, but they're sharing the research here[0][1] so you can reproduce easily, aren't they? As I understand it now, it's very fair - training the model is a separate thing from doing (and sharing) the research, is very costly, and would not happen if they were forced to open that too - I also don'…

I submitted a request for access to the GPT-3 API a couple months ago and still haven't been approved. I don't find that to be very open at all.

The API does not have to be open, the research does. This is like saying cloud services should be free and open for all because Linux is open.

Re: AI training method exceeds GPT-3 performance with fewer parameters

#48
post #23

Slightly OT: Will GPT-3 itself will have any impact IRL? I ask because of its lacking options/competition on the hosting side (there's just Azure). This implies high prices hindering most use cases to break even/be profitable.

I think it's already good enough to generate marketing copy (at a glance, not my area of expertise).

Currently, AI is still very energy intensive though so it won't set the world on fire just yet - i.e. for many tasks the human brain still reigns king and it runs on something like 20W.

Re: AI training method exceeds GPT-3 performance with fewer parameters

#49
The headline is clickbait (GPT-3 is about language modeling/generation, and there's ZERO mention of that in this work), but the actual work is interesting and the paper is worth a read.

To the OP: please consider changing the headline to "Exploiting Cloze Questions for Few Shot Text Classification and Natural Language Inference" and link to the original paper at https://arxiv.org/abs/2001.07676 instead of this PR puff piece.

Re: AI training method exceeds GPT-3 performance with fewer parameters

#50

GPT3's strength is on language generation, so using *GLUE for evaluating it (where encoder type models are just better) and claiming to have 99.9% less parameters is sensationalism.

I had this discussion with Timo Schick, the first author, on Reddit. My final comment is copied below, with the relevant context.

Note that GPT-3's approach to *GLUE involved no training on the task, just a good choice of prompt, whereas PET and iPET also use fine-tuning. Also, because distillation takes large amounts of training data, they use ensembles in the true few-shot regime, so their parameter efficiency is significantly worse than they advertise.

https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/itrcac/smal...

---

Timo Schick:

Finally, I do not really agree with your last two paragraphs, especially "One is about semi-supervised learning, that says by exploiting task-specific architectures you can do fairly well with low amounts of labelled data.": If you leave out the final distillation step (which is not required for good performance), we use the exact same architecture for all tasks. In what sense is this more task-specific than GPT-3? I would not consider "exploiting task-specific architectures" to be a (fundamental) part of the paper.

My reply:

So what I mean here is that masked training and bidirectional transformer models like BERT have always been designed as a way to get good scores in analysis tasks like Q&A, even if they are pretrained on general text, whereas unidirectional generative transformer models are now basically only relevant for generative tasks. You can say, well, both architectures can do both tasks, so is it really task specific?, but ultimately, yes, we've selected ALBERT because it's better for Q&A tasks, and we've selected unidirectional transformers in other things because they're better for generative tasks.

So I guess the problem I have is with the merits of your thesis, “Can we achieve similar few-shot performance to GPT-3 without requiring billions of parameters?” OpenAI didn't present few-shot learning as if it were an optimal method; their headline achievement was not “here's the best way to...” but “I bet you never expected that this could...”. And so while it's definitely true that a BERT-derived model will outperform a GPT-derived model even at lower parameter counts on these sort of tasks, nothing new or interesting is being said by it. Everyone already knows that a bidirectional GPT-3 would be better at Q&A, and so that's what a smaller bidirectional model should be competing against. GPT-3 is only interesting in this context because it's not the optimal model (or training routine).

So while it's also true that if your aim is SOTA in few-shot learning then you should definitely use a bidirectional transformer with all the new tricks, if your goal is to understand PET in a context that includes GPT-3, doing so merely makes it harder to see what's going on.

Post reply on HN