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Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

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Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#841

Post by GavinMcG »

willis936 wrote: post #840
victor106 wrote: post #46

I finally agree with something this administration is doing. This is a solid move. H1B has been/is being abused by all companies (big and small) for a number of years at the cost of not only American workers but also the visa holders. The only ones benefiting are the companies that sponsor H1B visas by suppressing wages for everyone. I just hope the new administration don't role back these changes. Typically when a n…

I do think it’s strange that HN has a supposed stance against political discussion, but allows discussion of the one popular policy from a very unpopular administration. Seems like a double standard leaning to the right.

Discussing policies and discussing politics is hardly the same thing.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#842

Post by Infinitesimus »

webinvest wrote: post #610
AQuantized wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big difference between requiring a minimum wage for anyone and specifically requiring a higher wage for existing H1-Bs. In particular, the fact that H1-Bs will have to emigrate if it isn't increased.

It’s an H1-B temporary work visa. They are required to emigrate back regardless after 3 years or less.

H1-B is a dual intent work visa an you're not required to emigrate. You shave the option to extend your work permit for 6 years or pursue permanent residency.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#843

Post by purple-again »

willis936 wrote: post #840
victor106 wrote: post #46

I finally agree with something this administration is doing. This is a solid move. H1B has been/is being abused by all companies (big and small) for a number of years at the cost of not only American workers but also the visa holders. The only ones benefiting are the companies that sponsor H1B visas by suppressing wages for everyone. I just hope the new administration don't role back these changes. Typically when a n…

I do think it’s strange that HN has a supposed stance against political discussion, but allows discussion of the one popular policy from a very unpopular administration. Seems like a double standard leaning to the right.

How are changes to H1B's a political issue in the same vein as say the president going to the hospital? H1B's are huge in the tech industry and so of course of huge interest to the tech community directly.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#844

Post by willis936 »

GavinMcG wrote: post #841
willis936 wrote: post #840

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think it’s strange that HN has a supposed stance against political discussion, but allows discussion of the one popular policy from a very unpopular administration. Seems like a double standard leaning to the right.

Discussing policies and discussing politics is hardly the same thing.

Then there are plenty of equally-or-more pertinent policies that should also be discussed. Immigration is the 6th most important topic to American voters this election [0,1]. Trump has unpopular stances on the top 5 topics [2] but headlines related to that are not allowed on HN because they are political. This is the double standard.

Finally, Trump’s legal immigration policy is very anti-immigration [3]. This is a stunt to get an uptick in votes. The reality is that this policy sounds nice on paper but will make it even harder for people to immigrate to the US.

0. https://news.gallup.com/poll/276932/several-issues-tie-impor...

1. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2020/08/13/important-is...

2. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/where-president-trump-...

3. https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2020/08/26/fact-...

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#845

Post by nullsense »

gopi wrote: post #751
Florin_Andrei wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes the immigration process in the US truly horrific is the extraordinary time it takes to approve or reject a greencard petition. In many cases it takes years - or even over a decade or more. That's insane. People bring their spouses here, they have kids who are born and go to school here, and all along the way their immigration status is uncertain. And meanwhile they are tied to whatever job they're in. It's…

For Engineers and Doctors from India, its takes more than 20 years to get Green card now. Its because of the arcane country quota system which assigns the same numerical quota for each country regardless of population, so India and Monaco get the same number of Green cards. This is the remnant of the pre-1965 racist immigration country quota system which allowed only European whites into US.

Applicants from Oceania have 5% to 10% chance of winning the green card lottery in a given year. India is like 0.01 percent or something silly like that.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#846

Post by quantgenius »

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #658
reissbaker wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The higher pay seems like an overall positive change to reduce the prevalence of "body shops" and so that H1-Bs aren't an easy way for companies to lower overall pay rate. I'm not sure that narrowing degree qualifications is a win; high-skill immigration is a significant boon to America's economy, and I think ability to do the work, and American company willingness to pay above-rate salaries (legally mandated now to…

What makes the immigration process in the US truly horrific is the extraordinary time it takes to approve or reject a greencard petition. In many cases it takes years - or even over a decade or more. That's insane. People bring their spouses here, they have kids who are born and go to school here, and all along the way their immigration status is uncertain. And meanwhile they are tied to whatever job they're in. It's…

What makes the immigration process in the US truly horrific is that it is racist. When the law was passed, the grand compromise was that it would not change the racial makeup of the country. So there are country specific (which is really just race specific with a wink and a nod) quotas for different countries. This means if you are from Sweden or Ireland, it's actually pretty easy to get a green card. There is even a green card lottery where you can apply in Ireland and get a green card and get one just because you entered because there aren't enough immigrants from there to balance things out. But if you are from India, it's going to take a decade or more.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#847

Post by jackpeterfletch »

reissbaker wrote: post #200
jedberg wrote: post #9

Credit where credit is due, this is a good move. The H1B program has been abused for a long time. It sounds like these changes should help make it too expensive for the fraudulent abuse to continue.

The higher pay seems like an overall positive change to reduce the prevalence of "body shops" and so that H1-Bs aren't an easy way for companies to lower overall pay rate. I'm not sure that narrowing degree qualifications is a win; high-skill immigration is a significant boon to America's economy, and I think ability to do the work, and American company willingness to pay above-rate salaries (legally mandated now to…

I understand why these credit systems are in place.

But I do find myself feeling sorry for the fact that they basically discriminate against those whom are not rich and/or are lesser educated.

In many cases they're the people that would benefit the most from being allowed to walk away from a system thats failed them.

I don't really have a solution, just a thought.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#848

Post by victor106 »

Traster wrote: post #782
switch11 wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former H1B holder who walked away from a Green Card because being a bonded laborer for 10+ years to a large tech company wasn't my cup of tea I agree 1000% with you on this -> H1B has been/is being abused by all companies (big and small) for a number of years at the cost of not only American workers but also the visa holders. The only ones benefiting are the companies that sponsor H1B visas by suppressing wages…

Let me provide the counter (A) The fact that silicon valley gets access to global talent which make sthe companies much more successful and massively increases the number of jobs available providing far more jobs for US citizens than if the visa program didn't exist (B) The H1B visa holders are earning far more than they would get by remaining in their home country, and whilst they're bonded labour in the US they can…

I agree with some of your points.

If the alternative is no H1B that would be very bad for the US.

But I think there’s a middle ground where you can say let’s the keep H1B program but tweak it in a way that benefits the H1B visa holder and American citizens so corporations don’t take advantage of the talent shortage in tech

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#849

Post by nullsense »

tootahe45 wrote: post #757
epicureanideal wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pay level still isn’t high enough. Minimum pay of about 170k in San Jose for a software engineer? That’s not a specialist, that’s average for a small startup.

As a New Zealander, this level of pay just baffles me. Is the US the only place where SWE's get paid well compared to other professions?

Basically. Check levels.fyi and see for yourself. It's only silicon valley "FAANG" companies that pay $400k total compensation for senior engineers, but principal / staff engineers at the big firms make up to a million.

AWS is spinning up a dev team in Auckland though teaming up with Vector on some IOT stuff in the energy space apparently though. I would hope the comp for those positions would be at least $140k NZD, but still that's nowhere near what the fellas over at Google HQ are making for writing protobufs all day.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#850

Post by jtdev »

Traster wrote: post #782
switch11 wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former H1B holder who walked away from a Green Card because being a bonded laborer for 10+ years to a large tech company wasn't my cup of tea I agree 1000% with you on this -> H1B has been/is being abused by all companies (big and small) for a number of years at the cost of not only American workers but also the visa holders. The only ones benefiting are the companies that sponsor H1B visas by suppressing wages…

Let me provide the counter (A) The fact that silicon valley gets access to global talent which make sthe companies much more successful and massively increases the number of jobs available providing far more jobs for US citizens than if the visa program didn't exist (B) The H1B visa holders are earning far more than they would get by remaining in their home country, and whilst they're bonded labour in the US they can…

But that’s not what’s happening... every H1B holder I’ve personally worked with, while being incredibly nice people, required immense oversight to get any useful output from. 1 U.S. developer/manager to 5+ H1B hires seems to be common.
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