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Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

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Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#781

Post by [deleted] »

sedatk wrote: post #319
chairmanwow1 wrote: post #189

Overall, I really support these changes. However, this piece really struck me as a big mistake: "Under the changes, an applicant must have a college degree in the specific field in which he or she is looking to work. A software developer, for example, wouldn’t be awarded an H-1B visa if that person has a degree in electrical engineering." Some of the best software engineers I know are graduate degree holders from neu…

I’m a high school graduate and a self-taught developer. I got hired by Microsoft as a software engineer to the Microsoft Windows Core OS team based on my skills with an H-1B. I made Microsoft millions of dollars with my work. I’m now writing a book on software development published by Manning Books. None of that would have happened if such a criteria existed. That policy doesn’t make any sense at all.

[deleted]

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#782

Post by Traster »

switch11 wrote: post #669
victor106 wrote: post #46

I finally agree with something this administration is doing. This is a solid move. H1B has been/is being abused by all companies (big and small) for a number of years at the cost of not only American workers but also the visa holders. The only ones benefiting are the companies that sponsor H1B visas by suppressing wages for everyone. I just hope the new administration don't role back these changes. Typically when a n…

As a former H1B holder who walked away from a Green Card because being a bonded laborer for 10+ years to a large tech company wasn't my cup of tea I agree 1000% with you on this -> H1B has been/is being abused by all companies (big and small) for a number of years at the cost of not only American workers but also the visa holders. The only ones benefiting are the companies that sponsor H1B visas by suppressing wages…

Let me provide the counter

(A) The fact that silicon valley gets access to global talent which make sthe companies much more successful and massively increases the number of jobs available providing far more jobs for US citizens than if the visa program didn't exist

(B) The H1B visa holders are earning far more than they would get by remaining in their home country, and whilst they're bonded labour in the US they can always return to their home country leaving them at a minimum with a choice between a better job in the US or the same situation they had in their home country anyway.

(C) The US gains a bunch of highly intelligent, highly taxable employees who will likely eventually become citizens and can then create startups as well as providing a larger labour pool for the people who are starting companies.

All of your critiques are comparing H1B visas against some imaginary system where people can come to work in the US with no restriction, and let's remind ourselves these changes are from a thoroughly anti-immigration administratrion. The alternative to the H1B system is no H1B system, which is why it's been so difficult to reform. There is no law getting out of congress that reduces the restrictions on immigration.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#783

Post by phendrenad2 »

sedatk wrote: post #319
chairmanwow1 wrote: post #189

Overall, I really support these changes. However, this piece really struck me as a big mistake: "Under the changes, an applicant must have a college degree in the specific field in which he or she is looking to work. A software developer, for example, wouldn’t be awarded an H-1B visa if that person has a degree in electrical engineering." Some of the best software engineers I know are graduate degree holders from neu…

I’m a high school graduate and a self-taught developer. I got hired by Microsoft as a software engineer to the Microsoft Windows Core OS team based on my skills with an H-1B. I made Microsoft millions of dollars with my work. I’m now writing a book on software development published by Manning Books. None of that would have happened if such a criteria existed. That policy doesn’t make any sense at all.

Wow, I was told Microsoft only hires people with at least a BS degree. I guess that's mot entirely true.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#784

Post by raverbashing »

ponker wrote: post #310
jedberg wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the Canadian system too, but it was recently pointed out to me that the Canadian system is biased towards wealthy immigrants. Many of the points are things that take money to get (like advanced degrees and knowledge of French). And then you end up with the "PhD taxi driver" problem too.

That's not a bug, it's a feature. Wealthy immigrants are more useful to a country than poor immigrants, unless those poor immigrants have a lot of promise which is most easily approximated by educational credentials. The PhD taxi driver isn't a huge problem because it's voluntary on the part of the immigrant and usually those people send their kids to top universites.

> the PhD taxi driver isn't a huge problem because it's voluntary on the part of the immigrant

Of course it isn't voluntary. If you had a PhD would you prefer to work as a taxi driver?

It's a mix of multiple factors:

- Some masked racism (usually in form of "needs Canadian experience" meaning for most people: either you spend some time in a cashier/cleaning/etc job or you aren't getting through to us)

- Curriculum stuffing/PhDs from some smaller countries might not be worth the paper they're printed on (which should be easy to sieve in an interview - but a Canadian won't go out of the way to help you - not even a bit)

- Peculiarities of the Canadian job market (centralization depends on area/specialty, etc)

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#785

Post by Traster »

vamega wrote: post #712
sisama wrote: post #664

I estimated the new prevailing wages for NYC/SF/SEA using z-scores and the new %-iles. For NYC: (I II III IV) = (116,003 137,323 160,321 203,405) For SF: (I II III IV) = (138,283 162,157 187,910 236,155) For SEA: (I II III IV) = (128,082 148,708 170,957 212,639) The level for an applicant is determined by their education + experience. Level I is supposed to correspond to an entry-level role requiring specialized skil…

Amazon definitely comes under considering base salary only. I hear they have a cap 165K for base salary (185K in NYC/SF). No matter how senior the position, it seems the person wouldn't qualify for Level IV. What would the consequences of that be? Can they just hire them at a Level 3?

Let's face it - it's pretty trivial for Amazon to go "Okay, now we have a H1B tier that get x% less stock and exactly the minimum requried base salary". It's not like they have a problem reaching that total comp, they just like to incentivize employees differently. I don't see them dumping the H1Bs entirely simply because they don't want to rebalance.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#786

Post by cryptica »

I don't even live in the US but this is a great move and I hope other countries follow suit. It will actually benefit US industry by forcing companies to only select the most highly skilled workers. It will raise standards in all industries.

It will even give foreign workers an incentive to improve their skills in order to meet higher entry requirements. This will give people something to work towards.

In the software industry, managers and company owners have a false idea that they can get things done faster by throwing more people at the problems and having access to cheaper labor is the solution... Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. There is such a thing as a 10x or 100x developer (companies like Netflix have already figured this out). Unfortunately, most companies will not figure this out on their own while they are addicted to cheap labor. Companies need to be taken to detox.

In a normal capitalist environment, these cheap-labor addicted companies would be wiped out at regular intervals, but in our crony-capitalist environment the government is keeping them on life support; so the least the government can do is force them to increase their standards.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#788

Post by 867-5309 »

tootahe45 wrote: post #757
epicureanideal wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pay level still isn’t high enough. Minimum pay of about 170k in San Jose for a software engineer? That’s not a specialist, that’s average for a small startup.

As a New Zealander, this level of pay just baffles me. Is the US the only place where SWE's get paid well compared to other professions?

this is partially offset by the cost of living. for example you would pay roughly double for things such as rent and childcare in San Jose compared to Auckland (which is already much more expensive than the rest of NZ)

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#789

Post by C1sc0cat »

cookieswumchorr wrote: post #731
epicureanideal wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pay level still isn’t high enough. Minimum pay of about 170k in San Jose for a software engineer? That’s not a specialist, that’s average for a small startup.

but your average small startup still needs to hire people somehow, right? Is there still free workforce on the Market?

So if they cant afford the going rate then the start-up should not have been funded or started.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#790

Post by [deleted] »

rayiner wrote: post #677
Florin_Andrei wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes the immigration process in the US truly horrific is the extraordinary time it takes to approve or reject a greencard petition. In many cases it takes years - or even over a decade or more. That's insane. People bring their spouses here, they have kids who are born and go to school here, and all along the way their immigration status is uncertain. And meanwhile they are tied to whatever job they're in. It's…

It’s insane because it’s a kludge. The US doesn’t really have a general purpose skilled immigration visa. The H1B visa is a temporary worker visa. There is this whole legal fiction where, when you get one, you have to announce non-immigrant intent with a wink, then once you’re here you say “I just now changed my mind and I want to stay here, can I get a green card.” It was never designed to be a payday to permanent r…

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