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DigitalOcean App Platform

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Re: DigitalOcean App Platform

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can HN really deliver enough traffic to a static site to cost a significant amount? I've had mildly popular posts on HN for my Netlify blog (John Carmack tweeted about it!) and not had to pay for bandwidth.

No. I don't think so. The concern for me is a lack of hard limit on spending on GCP, Azure, and AWS. If I screw up and allocate a bunch of resources unintentionally, I'm left holding the bill. That's a terrible setup for PaaS because all programming involves mistakes eventually, especially for new users learning the system. Granted, there are likely limits on accounts, but those are to protect the services from fraud…

Hard spend limits are not an easy problem with cloud. There are too many things that incur costs. Everytime this comes up, I ask the same question: what do you expect to happen when the quota is hit?

Shutdown your servers? Wipe your SSDs and storage buckets? Remove your DNS records? Should it be permanent? If not then they're just subsidizing the costs. If it's soft-limit then its just a warning, and if you just want a warning then billing alarms already exist in every cloud.

Also for most customers, the data and service is far more important than the cost. Bills can be negotiated or forgiven afterwards. Lost data and customers can't.

Re: DigitalOcean App Platform

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Google part of the name means that the service could be shut down at moment's notice if it isn't providing millions of dollars in revenue and even then it's a toss up if the people in charge get bored of it.

What Google Cloud product has been shutdown prematurely? You still mad about the Google RSS reader?

There was a thread the other day that mentioned a variety of products that were killed by Google, which were aggregated here: https://killedbygoogle.com/

There was also a similar one for Mozilla: https://killedbymozilla.com/

Perhaps they were being weary due to the practices the entirety of the company has displayed in the past, in regards to killing off products.

Not sure about Google Cloud in particular, though.

Re: DigitalOcean App Platform

#273

I am so glad to see this. I was looking to deploy an app and the choice is either Heroku or manage your own server which I don't want to do. Heroku gives instant deployment for the most common types of apps (python/java/ruby). It's PaaS done right, it's fantastic. You should really have a look if you're not aware of it, it's only $7 for a starter app. Problem is, scaling up is about $50 per gigabyte of memory which m…

Why not take the initial complexity cost and learn k8s and containerization? That's what I've been doing as a step-up from Heroku and have been very happy with it.

My project currently runs on Digitalocean managed k8s and setting it up really wasn't hard. I had everything already in containers for dev/prod anyway, and having those run on k8s just meant I had to write the deployment manifests that pull the containers and setup the pods.

What I love about managed k8s (and also shared a couple times in comments on HN) is that it's separated from the servers below. I can have 20 containers (that can be separate things all-together) running on the cheapest Droplet and would only pay whatever that droplet costs, so under $20. Then when I need more power, I just scale the Droplets used for the k8s cluster and my pods/containers get shoveled around the available resources automatically.

I liked this approach so much that I now have a private 'personal projects cluster' that runs on digitalocean with the cheapest/weakest droplet avvailable, and whenver I have a small hobby project that needs to be hosted somewhere, I just add that container to the k8s cluster and be done with it.

Re: DigitalOcean App Platform

#274
post #241
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The digital ocean volume pricing of $1/10GB per month seems very steep... I can literally buy fresh SSDs every month for that money. The container pricing is reasonable though.

You're reading it wrong. For $5/month you can get 250GB of storage with 1TB outgoing. Additional is $1/100GB and $10/TB

I must be missing something: https://i.imgur.com/3PNqSt5.png

Edit: You're talking about spaces[1], I'm talking about volumes[2].

[1] https://www.digitalocean.com/products/spaces/

[2] https://www.digitalocean.com/products/block-storage/

Re: DigitalOcean App Platform

#275
post #273

I am so glad to see this. I was looking to deploy an app and the choice is either Heroku or manage your own server which I don't want to do. Heroku gives instant deployment for the most common types of apps (python/java/ruby). It's PaaS done right, it's fantastic. You should really have a look if you're not aware of it, it's only $7 for a starter app. Problem is, scaling up is about $50 per gigabyte of memory which m…

Why not take the initial complexity cost and learn k8s and containerization? That's what I've been doing as a step-up from Heroku and have been very happy with it. My project currently runs on Digitalocean managed k8s and setting it up really wasn't hard. I had everything already in containers for dev/prod anyway, and having those run on k8s just meant I had to write the deployment manifests that pull the containers…

I’m waiting for digital ocean to have something like google cloud run.

Google cloud run is essentially here is a docker image that listens on the $PORT env variable. Spin it up when you get requests. It will handle X queries per second (you can set limit). If more than X, scale it up to this many replicas.

I pay about 10 cents for my site. Zero maintenance. I push code to GitHub, GitHub builds an image, pushes to GCR and tells cloud run to use new image.

This is how things ought to work for simple web server like functionality. “Here’s a dockerfile and source tree, build it, run it and auto scale it with this https domain” Boom!

Re: DigitalOcean App Platform

#276
post #273

I am so glad to see this. I was looking to deploy an app and the choice is either Heroku or manage your own server which I don't want to do. Heroku gives instant deployment for the most common types of apps (python/java/ruby). It's PaaS done right, it's fantastic. You should really have a look if you're not aware of it, it's only $7 for a starter app. Problem is, scaling up is about $50 per gigabyte of memory which m…

Why not take the initial complexity cost and learn k8s and containerization? That's what I've been doing as a step-up from Heroku and have been very happy with it. My project currently runs on Digitalocean managed k8s and setting it up really wasn't hard. I had everything already in containers for dev/prod anyway, and having those run on k8s just meant I had to write the deployment manifests that pull the containers…

Why not take the initial complexity cost and learn k8s and containerization?

I would argue that the complexity cost is ongoing not just front loaded. There is an overhead for every new application. For instance putting it in a Docker image, deploying it using gitops flavour of the month and then any extra policy management and routing.

Re: DigitalOcean App Platform

#277
post #257

Seems like someone from DigitalOcean is reading and responding to comments here. I won’t touch or recommend DigitalOcean to anyone unless it employs some humans to address and respond to queries instead of sending the same automated replies. The very first time I created an account, it charged my card for verification and then blocked my account (the charge was also immediately reversed) since its systems believed th…

Surprised you need to post anonymously ;/ I just had an issue and I got a support staff to respond to me within a day. Maybe bad luck.

Re: DigitalOcean App Platform

#278

I am so glad to see this. I was looking to deploy an app and the choice is either Heroku or manage your own server which I don't want to do. Heroku gives instant deployment for the most common types of apps (python/java/ruby). It's PaaS done right, it's fantastic. You should really have a look if you're not aware of it, it's only $7 for a starter app. Problem is, scaling up is about $50 per gigabyte of memory which m…

This is spot on, except for one thing: Google Cloud Run. It's the closest offering I've found to Heroku and am planning to migrate all our services to it due to significantly better pricing. Make sure you look into it.

Agreed; we reduced our cost from close to 50$/month to a few dollars per month by simply switching from google app engine to cloud run. The initial reason for switching was that I wanted a dockerized solution so that we are not locked in to arbitrary versions of whatever app engine supports. It does that. But the cost advantage makes it a pretty sweet deal.

Cloud run is very easy to get started with. It's basically a service that runs and scales a docker based application. They bill per request based on some notional cost of cpu and memory. They give you some options for using bigger instances, which influences the per request cost. You can go from 256MB to 2GB memory and I think you can have up to 2 or 4 vcpus (one of those, we use 1). You can specify a minimum (default 0) and a maximum (default 1000) number of instances. If a request comes in and nothing is running, it starts an instance. After idling a while it disappears again. So, if you get a low amount of traffic, mostly there will be something running without costing too much. At some point you raise the minimum to 1 instance and it starts costing a bit more.

Crucially, there is a freemium layer: you don't get charged unless you hit a certain amount of requests. So, when prototyping, this is very cheap. Basically we managed to keep our cost around a few dollars while in the last months.

As this is part of Google cloud, you can transition to other solutions (like their hosted kubernetes) eventually. You also have access to other stuff. E.g. we use firestore as a cheap (but limited) database and the google secret store for secrets, and some storage buckets.

When you click together a cloud run deployment, it can create a cloud build for you that points to your git repository and set up automated deployments. If you have a Dockerfile, it will try to build and deploy that. If you need to customize what the build does, you can provide a custom cloudbuild yaml file (similar to github actions, travis-ci, and other popular ci options).

After it comes up, you get a nice https endpoint. You can actually add password protection to that as well if you need it. And you can optionally use your own domain.

So, we are running a spring-boot project for next to nothing. When the time comes, we'll likely swap out firestore for a proper database as this may get expensive as they bill per read and write and certain operations are just going to use up a lot of reads (e.g. a count operation). It's fine as a dumb key value store but it is very limited in terms of other features (e.g. querying).

However, Google's hosted databases are expensive and don't really make sense until you are ready to spend a few hundred dollars per month. Same with Kubernetes. Kubernetes does not make sense until you are ready to commit to a burn rate of hundreds of dollars per month. And it's completely overkill unless you actually are deploying multiple things.

Re: DigitalOcean App Platform

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, I'm confused. What standing charge? What exactly did you get charged for? I've been using DO for a few years and I have no idea what you are referring to. When I delete my unused resources, I don't get charged.

He probably forgot to turn off the instances and kept getting charged.

[deleted]

Re: DigitalOcean App Platform

#280

A lot of folks come to DO for their lower costs, especially for egress. However, this App Platform is charging $0.10 per GB for bandwidth overage. That's 10x the cost of running your own Droplet/K8s cluster.

Probably because it's served by Cloudflare, so DO have to pay for Cloudflare bandwidth (0.10 per gb for enterprises products)
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