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Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

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Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#471
post #94

I feel like rather than pitting immigrants against native born workers, and trying to come up with the perfect arcane rule, we should have sectoral bargaining where the workers could negotiate pay standards directly with their employers. Then it wouldn't matter where someone is from, because they'd be covered by that contract, and the government could get out of the way of the labor market.

_Stop trying to make syndicalism happen! It's not going to happen._

But seriously, I love the theories behind systems like that, but practically it's not something like that will hold in the US any time soon. Unions are still a hard sell to most folks. And that's exactly what you need to make that happen.

Semi-related: the effects that cheap H1Bs and H1B subcontractors might have on unionization efforts sounds like a fascinating topic.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#472
I can't access the link, but if the headline is accurate, that's probably a good move.

For FAANG companies - they usually pay all their employees including H1Bs pretty well.

But it's hard for Google/FB/... to even get a H1B visa for their prospective H1B employees because the cap is filled by a number of consulting companies that imports people from other countries (I think mostly India) and treat those people pretty poorly (bad wages, they might don't have the skills to make it in the regular job market).

In the long run, I think this problem will go away because people working from abroad is becoming much more common: these consultancy jobs and other H1B jobs will see a lot of pressure to be outsourced.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#473
post #447

I feel like this thread has a lot of bias coming from bad experiences in the computer science field. While I do understand the bad practices of many tech companies, I think the picture is very different when you look at careers in other STEM fields, such as biology, chemistry, and physics. H1B visas are very important for foreign students in these fields particularly those hoping to pursue careers in academia. H1B vi…

If their projects are that important we should be spending more on them so they meet the minimum pay requirements.

Part of the problem is that in basic science, it is hard to measure the value of a project until years in the future. But we do allocate money on academic projects -- through federal grants.. nevertheless the base salary for a postdoc is pretty standard across the country, an subpar compared to industry. Hence, salary does not necessarily correlate with importance of the research.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#474
ok, here is my devil's advocate point - what if more companies switch to even more offshoring? how are we gonna protect the jobs then?

Yes there are abusers (& outright fraud - https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/andhra-pradesh/telugu... ) of system, and on other hand we still need brilliant Computer science engineers !

Secondly, there is no law that currently prevents moving the H1b labor pool to a offshore heaven like India or Philippines or whatever! so what if this actually increases the bottomline of major h1b users?

Finally , what exactly is the 45th percentile salary? this is a vital question because the base h1b salary is $65k?! would that be increased to $100k? how many delta jobs that are we talking about? or all is this for the elections?

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#475
People who oppose H1B fundamentally believe that foreign workers should not be allowed to enter the American labor pool thereby depressing the wages here. Fair enough.

While on the margin, it is true that if a company can't hire a foreign worker, it _might_ be forced to hire a local worker in the short run. But in the long run, restricting labor this way only increases the chance of that job moving entirely abroad, especially for information workers like programmers.

Take this real example.

Google has offices in both Mountain View (USA) and Bengaluru (India). The hiring bar is the same and Google employees can easily transfer between offices.

A SWE in the BLR office makes ~40K USD (due to the local cost of labor), while the same SWE would make ~150K in MTV if they decided to change teams. USA gets $0 out of the 40K that the BLR SWE makes, while it would make ~55K in federal and state income taxes and even more in payroll taxes if the same person moved to MTV. And I am not even counting the sales taxes, and general velocity of the money that person would spend if they lived in MTV.

Either way for Google a SWE is a SWE and if the US made it impossible to hire them in the US, they would just increase hiring in India.

How is this a better outcome for the US or its citizens? Unless you ban all outsourcing, you are only increasing the chances of shifting the labor entirely outside the country by having strict immigration control, as opposed to labor that lives in the country and pays taxes. It's ironic that most of the H1B rage is targeted against programmers, one of the MOST remote-friendly professions as COVID lockdowns have re-affirmed. It's also ironic that there is always generic xenophobia against "second-tier programming talent from India" when Indians as a group pay the highest taxes per-capita in the US and are one of the most law-abiding.

Historically the US has had the benefit of being a desirable place to live in, due to being a developed country that largely had its shit together. That encouraged the best minds from around the world come and live here, whether researchers or working professionals, even if they had to jump several hoops to do so.

It feels like the US is extremely insistent on killing the goose that lays golden eggs. Due to the constant volatility in immigration policies, university toppers and budding researchers across the world are already wary of choosing the US as a place to work or live in. It will be a few decades before the chickens come home to roost for the US, but it will be too late by then.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#476
post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I vaguely recall that the "indentured" h1b workers (as oppose to the "proper" h1b like I had) owe money back to home, and that debt becomes instantly due if they bail out. If they were super-stars they would be able to cover it from the Amazon signup bonus (and become indentured to Amazon - your signup bonus is due back if you bail out early). However superstars rarely end up in those jobs. We're looking at people wi…

> We're looking at people with kinda average engineering skills, poor understanding of the American culture, no connections, and grim determination to grind their way out of their old life. I don't think these are the kind of people getting an H1B visa, though. It's usually the super-talented people they hire on H1B.

I don’t think it’s fair to say H1B holders are super-talented. For example most WITCH consultants are on H1-b and... not super-talented. I’ve worked with some brilliant people on H1-b too but the H1-b system as is does not filter for “super-talented”

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Body shops" like Infosys and Tata Consulting that import thousands of H1Bs under borderline fraudulent applications, and then underpay these employees. Just a random link, but the contours of the problem: https://www.epi.org/blog/new-data-infosys-tata-abuse-h-1b-pr...

Sure, there are low paid H1B workers, but why is that necessarily a problem? Your link shows no evidence that they depress the wages or employment of native-born workers. In fact, there are many proper economic analyses that show that native-born workers benefit from immigration: https://www.reddit.com/r/badeconomics/comments/3pi8vo/highsk...

H1B and immigration shouldn't be used interchangeably. I think immigration should be easier, but I highly doubt that when the company I work for uses hires junior web developers with H1B visas for low pay based on the area, that they couldn't find a single native to fill the position, especially since it's always been a fully remote position.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is right. The answer that's best for the economy is to allow more immigration, not less (especially skilled immigration). This move will just make it more dificult for the average company to sponsor H1B workers

Serious question: wouldn’t that be leaving less jobs open for Americans? As an American myself, I want to see my fellow Americans getting good jobs over people from other countries.

Why the preference for Americans?

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#480
post #457
post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If their projects are that important we should be spending more on them so they meet the minimum pay requirements.

Did Covid not teach us anything? How long do you think it will take for your job to be offshored? Maybe few years? This will give incentive to increase offshoring to the companies. Mind you - offshoring is not equal to outsourcing. If you work for a Global company like Google or GE - good luck. Stopping immigration is like stopping oxygen ... this economy will slowly stagnate and be overtaken by other more efficient…

They have to restrict offshore and outsourcing in parallel to visas or this would be a total wasted effort. It would actually backfire if not done in unison.
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