Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#121

Post by TuringNYC » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 10:21 PM UTC

nrmitchi wrote: post #109

TuringNYC wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best thing to do would be to treat them like local workers -- increased pay AND increased flexibility. This will help retain the best overseas workers in the US. Even better would be a salary auction where US companies get to auction (higher and higher salaries for the best overseas workers.) The highest auction rates would fill the quota first. Overseas workers win bigtime. Companies seeking talent also win. Loc…

The problem with this is that H1Bs are not just for software engineering jobs. Other professions that qualify are things like accountants, or health care workers. If it was a straight up "who pays the most", then the software industry (mostly FAANG) would end up with 80k H1Bs per year, and other industries would still not be able to hire for jobs they can't fill locally.

The H1B system is supposed to be for shortages. In a real economic shortage, prices are supposed to go up. If salaries are not going up, it is not a real shortage.

I think there is a shortage, so I'm proposing increasing salaries. Accounting firms are not competing with tech firms necessarily, they are competing with the market for accountants (lots of accountants go into other fields because they cant find work at a suitable rate.) Their business model should not be to underpay workers, it should be to pay workers high enough to attract them and charge customers appropriately.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#122

Post by booleandilemma » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 10:22 PM UTC

jzymbaluk wrote: post #55

nrmitchi wrote: post #33

I'll give you that, but it seems like a much simpler solution would have just been improving the flexibility for an H1B worker to be allowed to work at any employer for the term of their status. If an employer used an H1B in order to hire a foreign worker and then under pay them, the worker would just get another job that pays market rate, without the work status concern. Without the artificial control over the emplo…

This is right. The answer that's best for the economy is to allow more immigration, not less (especially skilled immigration). This move will just make it more dificult for the average company to sponsor H1B workers

Serious question: wouldn’t that be leaving less jobs open for Americans?

As an American myself, I want to see my fellow Americans getting good jobs over people from other countries.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#123

Post by Strilanc » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 10:22 PM UTC

anonytrary wrote: post #77

paulryanrogers wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day

Misuse of analogy. This analogy says that inaction eventually is the right thing to do. This is action.

Even a clock running backwards at triple speed is right eight times a day.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#124

Post by arcticbull » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 10:22 PM UTC

victor106 wrote: post #119

arcticbull wrote: post #10

It's pretty amazing to me how anti-immigrant America is, for a country built on immigration, but I suppose it's always been that way. Benjamin Franklin hated the Germans in the 1750s [1]. For perspective, Canada, a country 1/10th the size of the US, brings in 30,000 refugees each year. The US brings in 18,000. This means Canada brings in 25X the number of refugees per capita than the US does. Canada, a country 1/10th…

I am all for immigration, but not at the expense of suppressing wages for anyone. That money that was suppressed (indirectly) goes to the pockets of the C suite and contributes to income equality. What is wrong in addressing one of the reasons contributing to income equality? > Canada, a country 1/10th the size of the US, brings in 300,000 new immigrants each year. The US brings in 366,000. This means Canada brings i…

Canada has much lower income inequality than the US, so it seems like the increased immigration rates are not the reason.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#125

Post by maerF0x0 » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 10:22 PM UTC

> “America’s immigration laws should put American workers first,”

Quotes like these irk the heck out of me. American workers is a subset of the populace and no, they should not be prioritized over other competing groups. For example, American Business owners, American Retirees, American disabled folks...

It's a lot less about the specifics of this article/case and more about how the "Jobs" aim has become impossible to balance

EDIT: If you're going to downvote then leave a rebuttal to the point. Why should Immigration laws (or any law for that matter) focus on a subset of Americans?

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#126

Post by nrmitchi » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 10:22 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #105

nrmitchi wrote: post #33

I'll give you that, but it seems like a much simpler solution would have just been improving the flexibility for an H1B worker to be allowed to work at any employer for the term of their status. If an employer used an H1B in order to hire a foreign worker and then under pay them, the worker would just get another job that pays market rate, without the work status concern. Without the artificial control over the emplo…

> under pay them, the worker would just get another job that pays market rate Then the employer would go back to the H1B well, underpay another worker for 6 months until the worker bailed, go back to the well, lather, rinse, repeat.

Applications for an H1B open up in April, IIRC are accepted for a short period of time, and are not actually granted until October.

That is 6 months, plus a couple thousand dollars minimum, to try to get an H1B status for someone you want to hire.

If an employer is knowingly expecting the person they hire to bail after 6 months, they won't go through the process.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#127

Post by 4763382973 » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 10:22 PM UTC

jzymbaluk wrote: post #55

nrmitchi wrote: post #33

I'll give you that, but it seems like a much simpler solution would have just been improving the flexibility for an H1B worker to be allowed to work at any employer for the term of their status. If an employer used an H1B in order to hire a foreign worker and then under pay them, the worker would just get another job that pays market rate, without the work status concern. Without the artificial control over the emplo…

This is right. The answer that's best for the economy is to allow more immigration, not less (especially skilled immigration). This move will just make it more dificult for the average company to sponsor H1B workers

Low skill immigration hurts the poor. When economists talk about it having a neutral impact they are referring to 4-5 year time scales which is different from having zero consequences. Most poor people are not in a comfortable enough position for it to be ethical to tell them "just deal with it" without offering some kind of support.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#128

Post by muzaffarpur » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 10:23 PM UTC

Cherian_Abraham wrote: post #117

“ Because those required wage increases take effect this week, existing H-1B holders looking to renew their visas might not qualify unless their employers raise their salaries accordingly.” This is really bad. Families are going to get told to leave. I’m surprised that there is no discussion on this thread about the impact to people who haven’t done anything wrong.

That's not the kind of families HN cares about. Only the right kind /s.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#129

Post by jojobas » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 10:23 PM UTC

nrmitchi wrote: post #109

TuringNYC wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best thing to do would be to treat them like local workers -- increased pay AND increased flexibility. This will help retain the best overseas workers in the US. Even better would be a salary auction where US companies get to auction (higher and higher salaries for the best overseas workers.) The highest auction rates would fill the quota first. Overseas workers win bigtime. Companies seeking talent also win. Loc…

The problem with this is that H1Bs are not just for software engineering jobs. Other professions that qualify are things like accountants, or health care workers. If it was a straight up "who pays the most", then the software industry (mostly FAANG) would end up with 80k H1Bs per year, and other industries would still not be able to hire for jobs they can't fill locally.

There's no such thing as "can't fill locally", there's "can't fill locally right now".

The sacrifice to the "right now" bit is immense, it destroys incentive to learn pretty much anything.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#130

Post by koluna » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 10:24 PM UTC

matz1 wrote: post #92

koluna wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which... can already be done today?

yes but this will further encourage it.

If someone is keen on cost-cutting through outsourcing, they already don’t have an incentive to bring someone in and pay benefits. This is a false narrative.