Hiring for tech jobs has increased more than 100% in these Midwestern cities • Hacker News Board

Re: Hiring for tech jobs has increased more than 100% in these Midwestern cities

#181

Post by nilkn » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 5:07 PM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #180

nilkn wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's reasonable is that you're doing both things simultaneously and probably in the process getting a lot of complicated reactions because of imprecise use of terminology.

Not a single person here was confused between the Midwest and the South, and you're obfuscating to generate noise.

There's at least one person who shifted the discussion from the former to the latter (you). If you did so intentionally, knowing fully well the regions are completely distinct, perhaps you should consider your own role in generating noise before you accuse others of that. I do not believe it was unreasonable or obfuscating or noisy for me to point out that the discussion abruptly shifted to a totally different area of the country and that it was unclear whether this shift was intentional or an innocent mistake.

Re: Hiring for tech jobs has increased more than 100% in these Midwestern cities

#182

Post by dogman144 » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

thebean11 wrote: post #172

strictnein wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When factoring in the cost of living, there isn't much of a pay difference. This is especially true once you have a family and have to care about living in a good school district.

Saving 30% of a 200k salary is a lot better than saving 30% of a 90k salary.

Fwiw I did the math on that for goals of saving ~$300k for a mortgage and similar stuff.

It usually pays to sit in the big city for a few years with that salary, and then decamp to the smaller tech orbits, if your goal is to end up in one of the smaller cities.

Re: Hiring for tech jobs has increased more than 100% in these Midwestern cities

#183

Post by pratik661 » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

managerclass wrote: post #150

pratik661 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree with the first point. The high salaries in the Bay Area and NYC filter out jobs where the marginal value of the labor is low. This also filters out low margin, low productivity businesses. This in aggregate also filters for higher skill employees on average. As a result, the chances of you working at a highly profitable (or fast growing) company is higher. The chances of you working with (and bein…

I completely agree. I made the mistake of taking a lower paying job in a lower cost area at the start of my career. When I did move to a higher paid area, I found that new grads were almost being paid my rate.

Same. The comment was a reflection of my observation from Plano -> SF -> NYC. I started my career in Plano. I personally was able to grow a lot more in my career after moving to SF (and later NYC).

Re: Hiring for tech jobs has increased more than 100% in these Midwestern cities

#184

Post by kettro » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 5:11 PM UTC

jacobriis wrote: post #120

nharada wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is saying every single person in the midwest is only friendly to white people. This is so obstinate it doesn't even seem genuine to me. At the risk of feeding the trolls -- I grew up in the midwest. I can tell you that I both experienced racism myself and saw a lot of it in my high school both in students and from my classmate's parents. Of course everyone isn't racist, and most folks are friendly and acceptin…

OP: "What you will find is that people are friendly, as long as you look like them (white)." P: "Of course everyone isn't racist, and most folks are friendly and accepting." If these statements are equivalent, you have my apologies. English is not my native language. I think I will have to study for 10 lifetimes to understand. "Some people are friendly only if you look like them" would be a more defensible claim. Pro…

They sorta are, if you actually read the context of each.

They're generalizing from different ends: one is saying that there are _some_ people who are not friendly if you're not white; the other is saying that _most_ people are friendly. The implication is that there is a subset of the populace that is unfriendly, and a subset that is friendly. Both comments say basically the same thing.

Re: Hiring for tech jobs has increased more than 100% in these Midwestern cities

#185

Post by dogman144 » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 5:12 PM UTC

jetrink wrote: post #126

ethanbond wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure there's any one thing. When I think of New York City, which I would say is not only vibrant but nearly vibrating with energy, it's some combination of the following: * A ton of different languages being spoken within earshot at any one time * Lots of different smells at any one time, some delicious and certainly some much less so * Lots of music where you do and do not expect it, all sorts of different g…

> "in the city, anything is possible" I am reminded of this and grateful anytime I get interested in a new hobby. I started indoor rock climbing and discovered there are at least six gyms in my city that I can bike to. I got interested in film photography and found there was a great community darkroom with all the equipment needed to develop film and make prints. I discovered I enjoy board games and found there are d…

This is a good description of the city intangibles.

I think it usually boils down to stuff like this.

Re: Hiring for tech jobs has increased more than 100% in these Midwestern cities

#186

Post by burner831234 » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 5:13 PM UTC

theflork wrote: post #94

jacobriis wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What you will find is that people are friendly, as long as you look like them (white)." Be aware that when people say things like this they often do so to feel virtuous themselves like only they are so enlightened that only they even consider being friendly to non white people. The idea that people in the Midwest (which has a population of over 65 million people similar to France and the UK) are only friendly to whi…

OP should have said "What you will find is that SOMETIMES people are friendly, as long as you look like them (white), WHICH IS THE SAME THING AS IN BIG CITIES." I can't believe the backlash here - surely generalizing ALL OF MIDWEST to be racist is the wrong thing to do?

There is a distinct lived difference that is based on, you guessed it! generalities. Instead of nitpicking OP, its worth the attempt of empathy.

The small towns of PA (hey! loved that someone put this here) can be just as racist as the small towns of Colorado but somehow this doesn't extend to the small towns of California.

I say this as someone who has not lived everywhere but has lived in places where the common question (and yes, each town/city I lived in had a common question/conversation about my race)ranges from:

Are you black?

Are you jewish?

Are you honduran?

Are you armenian?

Are you [some subgroup of..] indian

Only in Japan, so far, am I - told - that I am American. Its amazing.

Exposure matters. Certainly there are a smattering of places in the midwest where things are progressive. That being said, they are not as well known and compared to my life in SF/LA/DC (still kinda conservative)/NY, the amount you're allowed to live and let live varies.

I'm more likely to hear some random comment about where I do or do not belong or some idiotic belief I have to disabuse about who I am in the Midwest and South.

Re: Hiring for tech jobs has increased more than 100% in these Midwestern cities

#187

Post by curiousllama » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 5:13 PM UTC

bmd3991 wrote: post #130

Edit: The below applies to people who don't want kids. I get why you wouldn't want to raise kids in somewhere like NYC (though I can also see the inverse). I don't comment often on HN but I feel like I had to chime in here with a bunch of questions. These may sound inflammatory but I mean them sincerely, I just don't see where people are coming from. I understand that a lot of the things I'm listing are negatives for…

Don't forget Chicago is the 3rd largest city in the country. It's a wonderful foodie town, has great theaters, public transit, etc - everything I always hear is great about NYC. You're thinking Cleveland (yes - that's dead), not Chicago, Minneapolis, or Pittsburgh.

Re: Hiring for tech jobs has increased more than 100% in these Midwestern cities

#188

Post by bmd3991 » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 5:15 PM UTC

dogman144 wrote: post #165

bmd3991 wrote: post #130

Edit: The below applies to people who don't want kids. I get why you wouldn't want to raise kids in somewhere like NYC (though I can also see the inverse). I don't comment often on HN but I feel like I had to chime in here with a bunch of questions. These may sound inflammatory but I mean them sincerely, I just don't see where people are coming from. I understand that a lot of the things I'm listing are negatives for…

It's a big country I guess, and I don't mean that to be sarcastic and snarky. That's usually the disconnect. There are places between the poles of NYC to Madison, WI, York, PA, and other suburban hell. And, they also aren't millennial ex-pat havens like Austin/Nashville, where the "culture" is a strip of craft breweries and expensive pizza places and basically Brooklyn 2.0. When you throw in cities with more access t…

Agreed about the trendy medium sized cities - people love them but they seem so bland to me for the same reason (great another craft burger place...).

You're right that there are probably more natural little Italy's out there, but no way you'll find an equally good Chinatown within a 2 hour drive of that little Italy. But, if you love Italian food and hate Chinese, then maybe that's a trade you're (not you specifically) willing to make.

I can see the access to nature as a reasonable trade off, if you're out hiking every weekend then maybe that could make the M-F in the smaller town more liveable

It definitely is an interesting situation

Re: Hiring for tech jobs has increased more than 100% in these Midwestern cities

#189

Post by pratik661 » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 5:15 PM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #69

jacobriis wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What you will find is that people are friendly, as long as you look like them (white)." Be aware that when people say things like this they often do so to feel virtuous themselves like only they are so enlightened that only they even consider being friendly to non white people. The idea that people in the Midwest (which has a population of over 65 million people similar to France and the UK) are only friendly to whi…

Or maybe they themselves have experienced discriminatory behavior in the Midwest? As an LGBT guy, I'm always direct when pointing out that I left the South partially because of discrimination, and someone is always happy to butt in to say I'm making it all up and the South is perfectly open and tolerant. It gets tiring.

I’m not LGBT (but I’m an ethnic minority who grew up in suburban Atlanta). I wanted to add that personally it’s not enough to just be ‘tolerated’. I’d rather be in a place where I’m “mainstream” or at least normalized. In that sense (for me as a South Asian) the Bay Area and NYC are no comparison so the South or the Midwest. I feel like I’m an active member of mainstream society there, not someone in the sides.

Re: Hiring for tech jobs has increased more than 100% in these Midwestern cities

#190

Post by curiousllama » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 5:16 PM UTC

dredmorbius wrote: post #132

1. Chicago: 8th overall US, 344,146 positions, 17.9% growth 2010--2018. 2. Detroit: 11th , 241,135, 37.2% 3. Minneapolis, 14th, 196,151, 17% 4. Kansas City, 24th, 100,782, 17.3% 5. Cincinnati, 28th, 82,088, 23.9% 6. Cleveland, 29th, 76,698, 16.3% 7. Indianapolis, 31st, 74,615, 24.2% 8. Milwaukee, 32nd, 71,755, 9.2% 9. Omaha, 40th, 37,508, 10.7% 10. Des Moines, 42nd, 28,693, 26.9% TFW article is basically a textualise…

They should normalize by population/

Chicago has a lot of tech jobs, but also a lot of people. 3rd in population and 8th in tech suggests it's the opposite of a hub. I wonder how much of the hiring is companies like McDonalds, United, or Boeing rather than FAANG.