Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption • Hacker News Board

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#191

Post by ciarannolan » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 3:06 PM UTC

propogandist wrote: post #129

Easiest way to build traction around this effort is to write some stories suggesting Trump is trying to take away encryption (even thought spying has bi-partisan support). The Trump angle will pick up mass media attention and the 'orange man bad' crowd will activate to make sure this doesn't get far. There may even be debates on encryption and people may actually talk about encryption, privacy and policy.

Wouldn't this work both ways?

"The Deep State wants to read your Facebook messages!", etc.

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#192

Post by knobcore » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 3:07 PM UTC

knobcore wrote: post #190

loughnane wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know of no government ever that has been so benevolent that its citizens didn't benefit from privacy and security.

This implies that said governments are bad. Or have the perception of it. You know who benefits from VPNs, privacy, and security? The proud boys. Russia. China. Steve Bannon. And their bots, that's who. They are a threat to civil society at present, and they're using that very privacy and security to organize to destroy the thing you're trying to "protect" by drinking Barlow's kool-aid.

I prefer the idea of internet governance via third party instead of the state. Flip it on it's head, where instead of government spying on everyone, we're in control of the surveillance democratically through consensus. But there needs to be some kind of governance of some kind.

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#193

Post by greenie_beans » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 3:08 PM UTC

Here is the contact form for the Senator who is Chairman of the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation. I'm pretty sure that's the committee who would be involved with this bill.

https://www.wicker.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/contact

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#194

Post by ciarannolan » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 3:08 PM UTC

indymike wrote: post #108

metadatabad wrote: post #89

I remember someone from here posting about how the user contacted Feinstein and got the most boilerplate response possible. They honestly do not care about the citizens at this point.

If you want them to care, stop by their offices and have a really rational talk with their staffers and the representative. If you can explain things with stories (for example, where a backdoor was used to crack ___ resulting in very personal damage to ____), you will change minds. Get 20-30 tech leaders to go meet with Feinstein and discuss how this will affect them. If she won't budge at that point, then maybe y'al…

You're assuming good faith in elected representatives and their staff.

I wonder if anyone in the last decade has _ever_ walked into their rep's office, talked to them, and changed their vote on a key issue. I really doubt it.

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#195

Post by glitcher » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 3:34 PM UTC

knobcore wrote: post #178

If you're so scared about your government that your activity might get you thrown away for life and it doesn't involve murdering someone, then you need better government, not better security because those kinds of governments will just say you murdered someone without any proof and lock you up or kill you anyway if they don't like you.

Better government and better security are not mutually exclusive. You can work towards both simultaneously, and claiming that one negates the other is a logical fallacy.

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#196

Post by voxic11 » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 3:36 PM UTC

Nasrudith wrote: post #102

ghastmaster wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, they did not point to any specific parts of the bill that would support their claims.

The "best practices by a committee they control" requirement which is carte blanche. They could easily set it to considering "key escrow" or "master key" backdoors.

Yeah I think that is the big question that will need to be answered. Would failing to implement such a key escrow scheme qualify for protection under the clause:

> "(C) fails to take an action that would otherwise undermine the ability of the provider to offer full end-to-end encrypted messaging services, device encryption, or other encryption services.”

My guess is no since even with a key escrow scheme the messages can still be encrypted end to end. Its just that there is another party which may be able to decrypt it later.

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#197

Post by brewdad » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 3:37 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #162

farias0 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really see most people leaving the likes of Facebook, Instagram and Twitter? I don't think they care about privacy enough to stop doing what's easy and fun

Why do "most people" need to do this? The questions isn't "What do 90% of people do?". The question is whether or not those of us that care about privacy have the ability to be private.

Are you willing to cut yourself off completely from that 90%? Given current policies that third parties have no duty to protect and even a duty to provide their data to law enforcement, you can care about privacy all you want but if every person in your circle isn't just as vigilant you are still screwed. Once one person in your circle leaks data or metadata about you to a privacy unfriendly third party, you've lost the game.

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#198

Post by toyg » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 3:38 PM UTC

indigochill wrote: post #118

toyg wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think tokamak meant they will be banned by law , which sadly I can see happening - it effectively happened already with napster and bittorrent in some jurisdictions.

I can't. Napster was shut down for copyright infringement. Bittorrent is blocked in some places on similar grounds (although, notably, BitTorrent itself is still alive and well - the law enforcement action has been against distributors of copyrighted materials and sites like TPB). But even if someone really wanted to get Mastodon banned and created a server full of illegal material to give politicians the fuel they'd…

Once the illegal activity is defined as running the software itself, because it cannot be done legally, then all hosts become liable, regardless of what they host. Simply by launching it, you would have broken the law.

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#199

Post by danielvf » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 3:40 PM UTC

Jon_Lowtek wrote: post #144

Back in late medieval europa most postal services had a back room, called cabinet noir where letters where carefully opened, read and resealed to check them for signs of treason against the crown or cross. These were often abused for what we today would call economic espionage. For these reasons many rich people employed private couriers who traveled to their business partners in person to hand over messages. Those w…

Rather than calling for backdoors, or secret rooms, this law explicitly prevents civil lawsuits or criminal prosecution for companies that refuse to install backdoors or use end to end encryption that they cannot crack.

I'm not really sure what the EFF is unhappy with about this act, since their complaints don't seem to be reflected in the text.

From the act:

CYBERSECURITY PROTECTIONS DO NOT GIVE RISE TO LIABILITY.—Notwithstanding paragraph (6), a provider of an interactive computer service shall not be deemed to be in violation of section 2252 or 2252A of title 18, United States Code, for the purposes of subparagraph (A) of such paragraph (6), and shall not otherwise be subject to any charge in a criminal prosecution under State law under subparagraph (B) of such paragraph (6), or any claim in a civil action under State law under subparagraph (C) of such paragraph (6), because the provider—

“(A) utilizes full end-to-end encrypted messaging services, device encryption, or other encryption services;

“(B) does not possess the information necessary to decrypt a communication; or

“(C) fails to take an action that would otherwise undermine the ability of the provider to offer full end-to-end encrypted messaging services, device encryption, or other encryption services.”.

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#200

Post by knobcore » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 3:47 PM UTC

glitcher wrote: post #195

knobcore wrote: post #178

If you're so scared about your government that your activity might get you thrown away for life and it doesn't involve murdering someone, then you need better government, not better security because those kinds of governments will just say you murdered someone without any proof and lock you up or kill you anyway if they don't like you.

Better government and better security are not mutually exclusive. You can work towards both simultaneously, and claiming that one negates the other is a logical fallacy.

Government exists solely for the purpose of negating security and life of bad actors who want to take away your rights. That is it's function, via the social contract.

That can only be broken in one of two ways. Either people don't care enough or they grow so distrustful of it that they don't participate in it or keep it in check.

When things like that happen you get elected officials decided by less than 40% of the country, anti-maskers, and asymmetric warfare in the streets to combat "the man". It's untenable.