Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption • Hacker News Board

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#171

Post by cure » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 2:29 PM UTC

choppaface wrote: post #16

Wrote Feinstein and got a reply (?!) that EARN-IT is “misunderstood” and that she won’t stop supporting it womp womp. Why does this bill have any bi-partisan support?? Would expect there would at least be some large special interests funding an opposition... big companies rely on encryption to keep secrets.

That's not exactly surprising.

Feinstein is always on the wrong side of copyright/patent/encryption bills. Just look up her voting record. She co-sponsored PIPA. See also https://www.wired.com/2016/04/senates-draft-encryption-bill-.... She co-sponsored the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act, too.

She's hopeless on this.

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#172

Post by freedomben » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 2:30 PM UTC

xenophonf wrote: post #158

dontcarethrow2 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A society that mistrusts its own citizens to a point where all those that whisper to each other are called criminals, dealers, traitors or terrorists is rotten at its core. I mean you said it yourself, dealers. This is why I believe EARN IT will even be celebrated. Generations who accept a war on drugs as sane, did we ever think these people will produce offspring who can think for themselves? The ones who somehow d…

> Let's ramp up those genetic studies and get rid of the undesirables already Holy shit, this is straight up racism. How the hell you got from protecting freethinkers to eugenics, I have no idea.

he/she isn't advocating this, in fact the opposite. They are using reductio ad absurdum to show where the "law and order" approach taken to the extreme can end.

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#173

Post by xiphias2 » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 2:32 PM UTC

WanderPanda wrote: post #141

xiphias2 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't see Matrix in the play store, the web page is unusable: I wanted to try it, not ,,learn more''. I installed Element, but it required username/password pair. I understand that it's a bit more secure than using phone number+email for first authentication, but it makes discovery of friends too hard. It trades too much UX for security, just like PGP.

> It trades too much UX for security, just like PGP. Thats similar to what eMail does, it trades UX for [nothing] (would place decentralisation there if it were not for gmail etc.)

Email is used for historical reasons, it wouldn't be good enough as a new service. If it disappeared, everybody would be just using Facebook for authentication / connecting with services.

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#174

Post by defnotashton2 » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 2:36 PM UTC

Aozi wrote: post #23

mytailorisrich wrote: post #5

I think that the key point that should be addressed by those against this bill and these laws in general is: How to conduct legitimate law enforcement business and police investigations at a time when most communications have moved online? The reason the Attorney General and the DOJ want some sort of access to communications is not to undermine free speech and to take over the world, it is because they know that with…

>How do we solve this problem? We don't, we accept that encryption is part of the modern world and learn to live with it. Because there's nothing else you can do about it. See encryption is just math, and you can't really outlaw or limit how math is used. If we have bad actors who want to encrypt their communication, they absolutely can with or without this bill. Even if Whatsapp/Telegram/Whatever has to provide the…

Just like law enforcement has always done, it uses the tools at its disposal. There are many mechanisms that require elevation and precedence already like a subpoena. Further more pgp is already in the wild, this bill will just force liability over towards the platforms and make them open up.

A fundamental requirement of a free society is encrypted communication, always has been. Im amazed given how the police state has grown since 9/11 that there are 'poor police' arguments et all. Government always grows in scope. The secret fica courts that were intended for terrorism only ended up being 50% domestic drug cases.

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#175

Post by throwaway212312 » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 2:39 PM UTC

souljourner wrote: post #146

Jon_Lowtek wrote: post #144

Back in late medieval europa most postal services had a back room, called cabinet noir where letters where carefully opened, read and resealed to check them for signs of treason against the crown or cross. These were often abused for what we today would call economic espionage. For these reasons many rich people employed private couriers who traveled to their business partners in person to hand over messages. Those w…

How ironic that you say that in a forum that censors speech it does not want you to hear. Yup … just like this. Yes, you are the badies, mods/admins.

This. It's telling that you are also being downvoted. The mods have a habit of censoring things and then uncensoring it when they think of a strawman to respond with, and of course, censoring the response to the strawman. Classic cointelpro.

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#176

Post by throwaway212312 » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 2:43 PM UTC

There are feds in this thread right now. HN needs to list shill tactics in the newbie FAQ or this will become another reddit real soon.

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#177

Post by knobcore » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 2:46 PM UTC

sdoering wrote: post #3

I strongly believe we have lost the war for privacy and security (against state level actors) already. Once the net adopted the platform model, we were screwed. Platforms are as easy to regulate, as for example the telephone companies were back in the days. They were easily forced to comply with wiretapping demands of the government. The moment a central platform controlled (most of) our communication and was able to…

Except state actors are currently also using the blanket privacy and security to influence elections. This is a couple of levels above talking crap about your government or buying some drugs.

And if that is to the point that it scares you that they'd lock you up for such behavior then you need better government, not better privacy.

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#178

Post by knobcore » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 2:50 PM UTC

If you're so scared about your government that your activity might get you thrown away for life and it doesn't involve murdering someone, then you need better government, not better security because those kinds of governments will just say you murdered someone without any proof and lock you up or kill you anyway if they don't like you.

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#179

Post by BlueScreenDeath » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 2:53 PM UTC

The FEDs are already here, "cleaning" up the comments. I just saw 1/2 a dozen comments get removed when I tired to reply.

Honestly, fuck you HN. You guys suck.

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#180

Post by badRNG » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 2:53 PM UTC

hardly_a_mirage wrote: post #156

Jon_Lowtek wrote: post #144

Back in late medieval europa most postal services had a back room, called cabinet noir where letters where carefully opened, read and resealed to check them for signs of treason against the crown or cross. These were often abused for what we today would call economic espionage. For these reasons many rich people employed private couriers who traveled to their business partners in person to hand over messages. Those w…

> Today many argue the state has a need to access such correspondence to prevent crime, but such a need is like the need of an addict: nothing good can come from it and the people should not enable these institutions to satisfy an ever growing demand for insight into their private lives. One must remember that democracy is founded on the believe that thoughts and words are not crimes and everyone must be free to expr…

By the same token, one could say that extra-judicial torture could have "usefulness" as you put it. We could have a similar discussion of how absolutists on the torture question aren't doing a proper cost/benefit analysis and are "providing their opponents an easy strawman for a hollow victory."

I know this is Hacker News, but not every argument requires infinite nuance, we don't need to sit down and examine the pros & cons of torture or any other clear and obvious abuse of government power. We don't need to dignify the position of "read all citizens private correspondence" with a cost/benefit analysis. This practice provides legitimacy to clearly unconscionable actions. It is permissible, even strategically valuable, to have certain positions that we are absolutist on, policies that aren't tolerated under any conditions.