For all people don't like the conclusions he came to in his own time, he made falsifiable predictions about the future and I'd much rather people debated those than the merits of the man who made them.
Oswald Spengler – an intellectual life
11–20 of 46 posts
Re: Oswald Spengler – an intellectual life
#12Worth noting that not only was Spengler a key intellectual figure in promoting fascism (despite his later private opposition to Nazism), his 'Cesarian age' concept - predicting a dictatorship to succeed democracy - is at the root of much neo-nazism today. Specifically occult nazi ideologues like the Order of the Nine Angles have referenced his work in their eschatology.
Not sure that promoting the work of an anti-modern, anti-semetic, pro-facist, who's eschatology directly assaults democracy is useful or necessary.
Re: Oswald Spengler – an intellectual life
#13For all people don't like the conclusions he came to in his own time, he made falsifiable predictions about the future and I'd much rather people debated those than the merits of the man who made them.
Could you please summarise the predictions for us? It'll take me a while to get to, and through, Der Untergang des Abendlandes[1], so I'm unlikely to reply in a timely manner otherwise.
From what I know so far[2] I am prejudiced against it, in that ascribing seasons to civilisations (Spring/Summer/Fall/Winter) strikes me as being parallel to "technical analysis" for stocks: possibly useful for historians in description, but anyone who attempts to apply the model for prediction should hope to be lucky.
[1] I agree with the characterisation of the Washington Consensus as Faustian, and the title of this book might help explain why the Nazis were so obsessed with Saving The West (even if it didn't wish to be saved) from Jewish Communism.
Goebbels, apud https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24141227
> "Die europäischen Mächte stehen hier vor ihrer entscheidenden Lebensfrage. Das Abendland ist in Gefahr. Ob ihre Regierungen und ihre Intelligenzschichten das einsehen wollen oder nicht, ist dabei gänzlich unerheblich."
European powers are faced with an existential crisis. The West is in danger. Whether their governments and their intellectuals will admit it or not is irrelevant.
> "Die Welt hat also nicht die Wahl zwischen einem in seine alte Zersplitterung zurückfallenden und einem unter der Achsenführung sich neu ordnenden Europa, sondern nur die zwischen einem unter dem militärischen Schutz der Achse stehenden und einem bolschewistischen Europa."
Therefore the world doesn't face the choice between falling back into its old divisions or joining a New Axis Order, but only the choice between accepting the military protection of the Axis or becoming Communist.
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Decline_of_the_West
The propaganda importance of a Faustian West in decline to be replaced by a Caesarian successor was noted by Linebarger, http://www.gutenberg.org/files/48612/48612-h/48612-h.htm#Pag...
> "... in the political warfare field, [the Germans] succeeded in making large sections of world opinion believe that the world's future was a choice between Communism and Fascism. Since they and the Communists agreed on this the point seemed well taken. Actually, there is no historical or economic justification for supposing that those two forms of dictatorship constitute a real choice in the first place, or that the civilized and truly free countries need ever depart from their ancient freedoms in the second place."
I believe this report of a false dichotomy because it (enforced by armed private militiamen!) was also noted by Weil.
Re: Oswald Spengler – an intellectual life
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find the writer‘s glowing admiration for Spengler disturbing. He was an antidemocratic thinker, whose books are pure speculative fiction. What the author calls „unorthodox“ methods, used to get a „holistic“ picture of historical developments, are (scientifically speaking) plain rubbish. Spengler wanted a dictator. He did not like Hitler, but was a Mussolini fanboy.
> He was an antidemocratic thinker I do not consider that disqualifying by itself. Plato and Socrates viewed democracy critically, too. I do agree, howeve, that the author paints an awfully one-sided picture of Spengler.
Very different to be anti democratic when Plato and Socrates were alive than in the 20th century.
Re: Oswald Spengler – an intellectual life
#15For all people don't like the conclusions he came to in his own time, he made falsifiable predictions about the future and I'd much rather people debated those than the merits of the man who made them.
Could you please summarise the predictions for us? It'll take me a while to get to, and through, Der Untergang des Abendlandes [1], so I'm unlikely to reply in a timely manner otherwise. From what I know so far[2] I am prejudiced against it, in that ascribing seasons to civilisations (Spring/Summer/Fall/Winter) strikes me as being parallel to "technical analysis" for stocks: possibly useful for historians in descript…
There are a lot, and I'm by no means an expert myself, but a few that seem fairly recognisable in our world today would be
>New civilizations emerging at the periphery of the declining ones' sphere of influence
>A rise in strongmen or dictators (ceaserism)
>resurgent popularity of religion
Re: Oswald Spengler – an intellectual life
#16Controversial in United States because americans don't like to read the writing on the wall
Depends on who is doing the writing on the wall. Lately it mostly seems to be graffiti artists.
Re: Oswald Spengler – an intellectual life
#17Worth noting that not only was Spengler a key intellectual figure in promoting fascism (despite his later private opposition to Nazism), his 'Cesarian age' concept - predicting a dictatorship to succeed democracy - is at the root of much neo-nazism today. Specifically occult nazi ideologues like the Order of the Nine Angles have referenced his work in their eschatology. Not sure that promoting the work of an anti-mod…
> predicting a dictatorship to succeed democracy
Polybius take on this is a permanent anacyclosis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anacyclosis
Re: Oswald Spengler – an intellectual life
#18I recommend reading the passage on Spengler in Poppers 'The open society'.
People online should know that George Soros is a capitalist who loves Karl Popper and named his foundation after the Open Society. Trumpism is breaking apart the Reagan coalition of economic liberalizers and social conservatives. George Soros would have been part of the Reagan coalition, but Trump feeds resentment that economic liberalizers in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s forced social conservatives to take the shorter en…
Soros has gone heavily for trans issues in recent years, with some longtime collaborators puzzled while this is getting so much attention and funding from his infrastructure. Surely that would limit his ability to be part of any Reagan consensus even in a best-case scenario.
Re: Oswald Spengler – an intellectual life
#19I think the real question is, why is this trending on HN at this particular moment in time, as opposed to six months ago, one year ago, etc, seeing how Oswald Spengler has been around for a minute, and, I’d imagine, had books written about him before.
What change has caused interest in Oswald Spengler to increase?
Forgive me if I’m being sensitive. It’s just, you know, the whole democracy thing, that little anti-semitism thing, and his support of just slightly questionable politicians like Mussolini.
;)
Re: Oswald Spengler – an intellectual life
#20I recommend reading the passage on Spengler in Poppers 'The open society'.
People online should know that George Soros is a capitalist who loves Karl Popper and named his foundation after the Open Society. Trumpism is breaking apart the Reagan coalition of economic liberalizers and social conservatives. George Soros would have been part of the Reagan coalition, but Trump feeds resentment that economic liberalizers in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s forced social conservatives to take the shorter en…
Soros is also for higher taxes for the wealthy, hardly something with which would the Reagan coalition with its 'trickle-down' con agree.