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Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

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Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#61

Post by can16358p »

mr__y wrote: post #46
Aozi wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How do we solve this problem? We don't, we accept that encryption is part of the modern world and learn to live with it. Because there's nothing else you can do about it. See encryption is just math, and you can't really outlaw or limit how math is used. If we have bad actors who want to encrypt their communication, they absolutely can with or without this bill. Even if Whatsapp/Telegram/Whatever has to provide the…

> anyone can make their own communication platform and then the users of that platform would simply stand out in ISP logs making it actually easier to spot them. If this platform was a dedicated tool developed by/for a bad actor, then everyone working with/for that actor would be easily found. Given that, it seems that steganography (combined with encryption) could be a solution with a "battle" between steganographic…

But if the app is in the gray area (e.g. in addition to bad actors, it's also used by a niche set of privacy enthusiasts) it enables plauisble deniability.

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#62

Post by mulmen »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #5

I think that the key point that should be addressed by those against this bill and these laws in general is: How to conduct legitimate law enforcement business and police investigations at a time when most communications have moved online? The reason the Attorney General and the DOJ want some sort of access to communications is not to undermine free speech and to take over the world, it is because they know that with…

We don’t because it isn’t a problem. It really is that simple.

The cops can do their jobs in meatspace.

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#63

Post by raxxorrax »

mikeyjk wrote: post #34
anonymfus wrote: post #2

There is a clear need for an opposite law which will make backdoors illegal. Who could fight for it?

Sadly Australia did the opposite - they can force us to backdoor applications and punish us for refusing. Australia is not the place to look for security applications.

Ah, the old penal colony mindset where the citizens are secretly prisoners.

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#64

Post by scrollaway »

zaarn wrote: post #60
tokamak-teapot wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And will just be banned and blocked

Well, if a mastodon instance admin decides to ban you, that's their personal decision. You can go to another instance. If another user blocks you, that's on them but you have no right to push your messages into another user's home system. If all else fails, you can host your own. It's ultimate free speech as intended and as someone who hosts a mastodon instance, it's a system that works pretty good, there is no notic…

I think that same logic applies to companies though so it's just shifting the problem over.

But I think GP might have meant banned at a government level?

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#65

Post by dmos62 »

ghastmaster wrote: post #50

> The EARN IT Act cynically uses crimes against children as an excuse to hand control of online privacy and speech over to state legislatures I like the idea of federal legislature ceding power to state legislatures. Additionally, it looks like encryption is offered more protections in this bill, Considering federal laws preempt state, especially with regard to telecommunications, I do not see what the risks are with…

I won't challenge the bill directly, but I'll point out that putting "crimes against children" front and center smells of misdirection, so it begs the question of what's really the bill's goal (though that could be just bad campaigning). Also, Edward Snowden spoke out against this bill. That's hearsay, but personally I've a fair amount of trust in his assessments.

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#66

Post by ffwd »

ghastmaster wrote: post #50

> The EARN IT Act cynically uses crimes against children as an excuse to hand control of online privacy and speech over to state legislatures I like the idea of federal legislature ceding power to state legislatures. Additionally, it looks like encryption is offered more protections in this bill, Considering federal laws preempt state, especially with regard to telecommunications, I do not see what the risks are with…

I don't think I've been paying enough attention but how does this work? The FBI, Police, and some congress members afaik have been talking about the going dark problem for years and now suddenly they pass a bill that explicitly protects companies from liability if they implement end to end encryption etc? Huh?! And why is EFF so wrong about this if that is correct?

Maybe it has something to do with "Notwithstanding paragraph (6)"

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#67

Post by gspr »

mulmen wrote: post #47
sdoering wrote: post #3

I strongly believe we have lost the war for privacy and security (against state level actors) already. Once the net adopted the platform model, we were screwed. Platforms are as easy to regulate, as for example the telephone companies were back in the days. They were easily forced to comply with wiretapping demands of the government. The moment a central platform controlled (most of) our communication and was able to…

And I strongly believe apathy will be the death of freedom. This is a needlessly negative outlook. Click the link, support the EFF. Educate your friends and family. Defeatism is not a compelling philosophy.

Exactly. I see this defeatism all the time regarding climate change too. It's OK to feel defeated. But why the hell would you spend energy to spread that defeatism?!

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#68

Post by gspr »

mjevans wrote: post #45
zoobab wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2020, still a nightmare to make 2 computers both connected to the internet talk to each other. One day IPv6 will get rid of the platforms.

Actual competition for ISPs / access provision is required for this. All consumer ISPs still ban "servers" on their pipes; this is a clear sign of insufficient competition.

Huh?

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#69

Post by mjevans »

gspr wrote: post #68
mjevans wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actual competition for ISPs / access provision is required for this. All consumer ISPs still ban "servers" on their pipes; this is a clear sign of insufficient competition.

Huh?

It's nearly always in the fine print of the contract, but enforcement is on a selective basis.

Re: Stop the Earn IT Bill Before It Breaks Encryption

#70

Post by Dirlewanger »

ghastmaster wrote: post #50

> The EARN IT Act cynically uses crimes against children as an excuse to hand control of online privacy and speech over to state legislatures I like the idea of federal legislature ceding power to state legislatures. Additionally, it looks like encryption is offered more protections in this bill, Considering federal laws preempt state, especially with regard to telecommunications, I do not see what the risks are with…

>I like the idea of federal legislature ceding power to state legislatures.

I don't, because I'm sure most state legislatures are even less informed on the importance of online encryption than Congress is. Doubly so if you live in a red state.

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