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.NET Orleans

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Re: .NET Orleans

#201

Post by nullsense »

cutler wrote: post #140
TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> LINQ for data operations > advanced ORMs like EntityFramework and NHibernate I've used all of these. Rails' ActiveRecord blows all of them clean out of the water.

ActiveRecord surpasses all other ORMs in memory usage and slow execution, that's for sure.

I like the ergonomics of it though.

I'm dealing with some rather fun EF code inside triple nested for loops that runs several thousand queries before throwing a validation error. Now, I know that's the devs fault and not EF, but EF made it all just seem like harmless object oriented programming and not set operations.

I almost feel like I'd like EF for write operations, and Dapper for read operations. Strike a balance.

Re: .NET Orleans

#202

Post by nullsense »

pjmlp wrote: post #172
manigandham wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the long wait?

Because .NET Core isn't fully compatible with .NET Framework, and there are lots of stuff which people are willing to spend money porting them. In the consulting business "I rewrote X in Y" blog posts only happen when someone takes the time to budget the project, because there is someone doing the math of developer time x cost per hour . Then .NET Framework has been Windows specific for 20 years, there are lots of .N…

That stuff is pretty optional in 2020. I'd argue a lot of it isn't even relevant anymore. Sure, some people will still want/need it, but if you just want to spin up an API .NET Core is good to go.

Re: .NET Orleans

#203

Post by danielbarla »

moron4hire wrote: post #76
kirillzubovsky wrote: post #65

`Orleans builds on the developer productivity of .NET` - could someone familiar with NET development specify what those things might be? I've never used .Net and would love to find out what it does better/worse/different than other frameworks. Thanks!

Let's see: - best in class IDE - best in class debugger - excellent cross platform support - very fast compilers - a robust library ecosystem - no arguments over how to publish or import those libraries - a build system that just works - and all without having to install tons of third-party, fly-by-night projects. I've worked in lots of different environments. .NET is the only one I've been able to leave, come back t…

As a developer mainly in the .Net ecosystem for about 20 years now, I frequently see "best in class IDE" as a headline feature. I've spent the past year with Rider as my main IDE, and surprisingly there have been very few things that I miss from Visual Studio (mostly related to profiling tools). On the other hand, there are several irritations in VS that make it feel decidedly not best in class, for me at least (extreme slowness on startup, but also on a variety of frequent tasks such as switching between files, compiler getting out of sync with reality and listing errors that have been fixed minutes ago, the WinForms editor refusing to open a screen for whatever reason, etc). While it's a decent IDE for sure, I'm not sure I'd rate it all that high, and would argue that at least the JetBrains family are on par in most cases.

So an honest question: what exactly do people see in VS as being so outstanding, that other IDEs lack?

Re: .NET Orleans

#204

Post by pjmlp »

nullsense wrote: post #202
pjmlp wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because .NET Core isn't fully compatible with .NET Framework, and there are lots of stuff which people are willing to spend money porting them. In the consulting business "I rewrote X in Y" blog posts only happen when someone takes the time to budget the project, because there is someone doing the math of developer time x cost per hour . Then .NET Framework has been Windows specific for 20 years, there are lots of .N…

That stuff is pretty optional in 2020. I'd argue a lot of it isn't even relevant anymore. Sure, some people will still want/need it, but if you just want to spin up an API .NET Core is good to go.

Pretty optional in 2020? We are certainly not reading the same RFPs.

Spin up an Web API is at most one bullet point among many others.

Re: .NET Orleans

#206

Post by Jaruzel »

pjmlp wrote: post #172
manigandham wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the long wait?

Because .NET Core isn't fully compatible with .NET Framework, and there are lots of stuff which people are willing to spend money porting them. In the consulting business "I rewrote X in Y" blog posts only happen when someone takes the time to budget the project, because there is someone doing the math of developer time x cost per hour . Then .NET Framework has been Windows specific for 20 years, there are lots of .N…

> Because .NET Core isn't fully compatible with .NET Framework

The roadmap is to collapse both into '.NET Standard' at some point. MS are committed to full cross-platform compatibility.

Re: .NET Orleans

#207

Post by oaiey »

pjmlp wrote: post #187
oaiey wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mostly Windows" is a limited view. Most modern .NET developments end up in a docker/kubernetes Linux container. In the first year of .NET Core some shops did Windows deployments but now, that is long gone. But I agree. .NET will not replace Java or any other serious language.

Long gone? Only in some kind of SV bubble. SharePoint and Sitecore are .NET Framework only. Only CSOM is Core and Sitecore just released their first Core support last month, and most enterprise projects ends up plugging into them. Forms, WPF still have issues running on top of core, UWP is stuck on Core 2.1 compatibility and .NET 5 is focused on desktop deployments with UWP future uncertain.

Not in SV, very traditional Enterprise, but writing modern software. And we are not alone

Re: .NET Orleans

#208

Post by nullsense »

pjmlp wrote: post #204
nullsense wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That stuff is pretty optional in 2020. I'd argue a lot of it isn't even relevant anymore. Sure, some people will still want/need it, but if you just want to spin up an API .NET Core is good to go.

Pretty optional in 2020? We are certainly not reading the same RFPs. Spin up an Web API is at most one bullet point among many others.

True. I guess a lot of RFPs requiring software of that nature have probably been largely dominated by the Java and .NET ecosystems for decades and your Nodejs, Python, Ruby, Go ecosystems don't have any compelling offerings or much interest from their community to work on that sort of software?

I feel like a lot of what I see online fits into either SaaS web apps, or well known open source projects / core infrastructure used in building large-scale, distributed systems.

I'm sure there's a lot more out there, but it doesn't seem to get talked about much. Hence, the comment. Meaning if you're interested in coming over to the .NET Core world fr a different background then the things that are missing from full .NET Framework probably aren't of any interest to you.

Re: .NET Orleans

#209

Post by pjmlp »

Jaruzel wrote: post #206
pjmlp wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because .NET Core isn't fully compatible with .NET Framework, and there are lots of stuff which people are willing to spend money porting them. In the consulting business "I rewrote X in Y" blog posts only happen when someone takes the time to budget the project, because there is someone doing the math of developer time x cost per hour . Then .NET Framework has been Windows specific for 20 years, there are lots of .N…

> Because .NET Core isn't fully compatible with .NET Framework The roadmap is to collapse both into '.NET Standard' at some point. MS are committed to full cross-platform compatibility.

Forms, WPF, WCF just as starting example, not bothered to go through the details.

MAUI (Xamarin rebranded) is only expected for .NET 6, if the stupidity of Blazor on Web Widgets doesn't end up replacing it.

Re: .NET Orleans

#210

Post by davidgl »

nullsense wrote: post #185
KurtMueller wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it as good as rails? When I run a rails new command, I can setup my postgres connection, nodejs and webpack libraries, rails core library in one command. Rails has database migrations with conventions i like - the timestamp and a file name that represents the action to be performed against the database (e.g. AddNameToBlogs) which that can also be rolled back. I also really like the Rails restful router which is st…

>I want to love .net core - I really like F#. Any other rails dev out there make the transition to .net core? They're worlds apart. Rails is optimized for day 1, .net core is optimized for day 1000.

This 1000%. I'm both an ex-ruby dev, and a current C# / F# guy. Ruby is great for throwing things together and installing a load of functionality through Gems. It's 3 years later when your trying to maintain and refactor that it all comes back to bite. RubyMine does help so you can at least do rename refactorings most of the time.
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