Apple quietly stops selling Bose, Sonos and some Logitech gear • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple quietly stops selling Bose, Sonos and some Logitech gear

#71

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 6:22 AM UTC

philliphaydon wrote: post #40

ebg13 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Bose headphones are miles more comfortable and more effective at active noice cancellation than the best Apple Beats. Will that change? Maybe. I mean...I hope so. It's hard having only Bose and Sony credibly competing in the wireless over-the-ear ANC space. It would be really nice to be able to get away from the crap bluetooth scourge like AirPods kinda sorta started doing with their W and H series chips.

But Apple Beats are poor quality to begin with, it's just got Dre's name associated to it to make them expensive. Most major brands are better than beats by a long shot. However, most brands are beginning to cheap out IMO. I had a pair of sennheiser headphones back in like ~2005, they lasted like 11 years before the cups started to fall apart. I replaced them with a new pair of sennheiser which lasted ~12 months befo…

[deleted]

Re: Apple quietly stops selling Bose, Sonos and some Logitech gear

#72

Post by Godel_unicode » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 6:24 AM UTC

jnwatson wrote: post #29

gonehome wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rumor is Apple is going to release an over the ear headphones version of airpods under their own brand to sell alongside the beats stuff.

That's really interesting. I can't use in-ear anything anymore, and I'd really like to try their over-the-ear stuff if they end up more like Airpods quality than Beats quality.

This has to be the first time I've ever seen it suggested that beats are lower quality than airpods. What are you basing that on?

Re: Apple quietly stops selling Bose, Sonos and some Logitech gear

#73

Post by locusm » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 6:44 AM UTC

gnicholas wrote: post #57

tshaddox wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know people who use iPhones but require their smart speaker to work as a Bluetooth speaker? I think it’s pretty clear the HomePod is only intended for iPhone (or maybe Mac) users.

My home is all Apple products, but we returned our two HomePods after we learned that we can't use them as a stereo pair if we're playing off a computer (unless the source is iTunes). We could use our iPhone to play to the stereo pair from any app. But on the Mac, they disallow this. You can't even get them to both play the same audio — you have to choose one of them to play and the other to sit silent. This is ridic…

Try to sample HeOS - I thought they sounded better than Sonos with virtually same feature set.

Re: Apple quietly stops selling Bose, Sonos and some Logitech gear

#74

Post by hindsightbias » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 6:56 AM UTC

actuator wrote: post #61

echelon wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Of course you got downvoted...) How can Apple be, 1. An operating system and business software company 2. A cell phone company 3. An exclusive marketplace for apps 4. A movie studio and streaming service 5. A music studio and streaming service 6. A hardware company whose products predominantly work with and favor other Apple branded hardware 7. ... How can Google, Amazon, and Apple all do this? Pretty soon they're g…

You nailed it so well in this comment, I have been pointing out this from when they launched Apple Music. The classic excuse which people hide behind is "but they don't have a monopoly". Sure, they don't have a monopoly in precise terms. But the power they have to push products in new verticals is just unfair to the competition as they can't compete on equal terms. Jabra's parent company in total earns less than 10%…

Interesting. I haven’t used greasemonkey in years, but was considering looking at it to filter out Apple threads. One week it’s all valiant Epic and fervent downvoting of those questioning the viability of the lawsuit, to a next week everyone agreeing with the judges surly review of the case.

Looking at the top Apple threads for the last month, it hardly looks like HN is some positivity echo chamber:

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastMonth&page=0&prefix=fa...

Bose used to be a gorilla in IP and was happy to sue Beats as soon as Apple announced they were buying it. Highly probable any settlement may have included carrying their products for some period of time.

Re: Apple quietly stops selling Bose, Sonos and some Logitech gear

#75

Post by lstamour » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 7:00 AM UTC

AmericanChopper wrote: post #49

lstamour wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it was an appropriate description. I did not read any “menace” or “treachery” into the use of the word “quiet”. The rest of the article mentions that new headphones are on the way according to rumour, that only Logitech’s headphones and portable speakers were pulled rather than the entire line of Logitech accessories, and that up until now, Apple has been comfortable selling both its first party headphones…

This sounds like exactly the sort of vague menace the headline is designed to drum up. Nobody is captive to the Apple store. There is literally thousands of other places anybody could buy peripherals from. And if you’ve spent much time looking at what they stock, you might notice that Apple tends to stock more peripherals in the categories that it’s not very good at making in house, so the exact opposite inference co…

I think you’ve misunderstood my points in your second paragraph. I’m only suggesting a captive audience as in “those browsing to buy on Apple.com what is compatible with their iPhone/iPad/Mac/etc.”

And the exact opposite inference is: “a pivot toward Apple selling more third-party devices that don’t directly act as accessories for their own products first and best” — which doesn’t make sense. Maybe the confusion is over first and best? I meant that Apple is entrenching its ecosystem play by making automatic headphone connection a feature exclusive to Apple-built headphones, and that they could do the same in other markets. For instance, why sell an FLIR add-on infrared camera when you could make it an iPhone Pro feature in 2-3 years? My suggestion is that the Apple Store is quickly becoming a place that serves Apple more than its customers, and Apple seems to be okay with that, for now at least. It’s the retail store equivalent to not being able to buy digital books from anywhere but the Apple Books store. Just as you have to use Safari to buy books from your iPhone, you’ll have to visit third-parties for more accessories that don’t directly attach to or increase the value of your Apple device. Because the addons Apple most wants to sell you are the ones they make themselves, and thus have the most profit margin for...

Re: Apple quietly stops selling Bose, Sonos and some Logitech gear

#76

Post by neuronic » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 7:06 AM UTC

locusm wrote: post #73

gnicholas wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My home is all Apple products, but we returned our two HomePods after we learned that we can't use them as a stereo pair if we're playing off a computer (unless the source is iTunes). We could use our iPhone to play to the stereo pair from any app. But on the Mac, they disallow this. You can't even get them to both play the same audio — you have to choose one of them to play and the other to sit silent. This is ridic…

Try to sample HeOS - I thought they sounded better than Sonos with virtually same feature set.

HeOS is bluetooth only while Sonos is now bluetooth and WiFi.

WiFi is nice because I don't ever get connection issues or drops around the house. I have a few bluetooth speakers and they were bad at this. Just walking into the kitchen or bathroom caused the connection to drop.

Re: Apple quietly stops selling Bose, Sonos and some Logitech gear

#77

Post by sjwright » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 7:12 AM UTC

rangoon626 wrote: post #60

sjwright wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple Music is mostly a holdover from the decade of the iPod and iTunes Music Store. They already had a strong market position and it would have been capitalist suicide to abandon it wholesale. I don't agree that it sucks compared to Spotify, but it does cater to a different audience, preferring curation over algorithms. Apple TV+ is indeed a curious one. Personally I think it's as simple as being a placeholder to al…

I’m not trying to be an annoying nitpick, you bring up good points and I have just a few observations... Apple Music curation. Has anyone been impressed by this? I found maybe 2-3 songs I didn’t already know about, over the course of at least a year. I was never impressed, even SiriusXM has more variety and relevancy. I think they blew the chance to really do something great. AppleTV+ makes me feel fatigued. Yes to b…

Not an annoying nitpick at all. Different perspectives are enlightening.

No, I haven’t been impressed by Apple Music curation. But I haven’t been impressed with Spotify recommendations either. I dare say that the best approach will require equal parts algorithm and curation.

As for Apple Card, that probably makes more sense in the USA where having many credit cards under different guises is commonplace. In Australia, store cards are relatively uncommon; I would suspect that a majority of people only have cards issued by their bank of choice.

Re: Apple quietly stops selling Bose, Sonos and some Logitech gear

#78

Post by ksec » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 7:22 AM UTC

sjwright wrote: post #47

ksec wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually have no problem with them being a 1-3, I just dont understand why they had to do 4 and 5. Music was understandable given there are no Streaming Music alternative other than Spotify. ( But Apple Music still sucks after so many years, and barely caught on to Spotify ). But Making Apple Originals? Pouring Billions into it? And Apple Card? Yes I think Banking and Finance will be there soon. If they have some s…

Apple Music is mostly a holdover from the decade of the iPod and iTunes Music Store. They already had a strong market position and it would have been capitalist suicide to abandon it wholesale. I don't agree that it sucks compared to Spotify, but it does cater to a different audience, preferring curation over algorithms. Apple TV+ is indeed a curious one. Personally I think it's as simple as being a placeholder to al…

Well Apple Music didn't start with human curation. It started with the magic "next song" algorithm from the original Beats. [1] ( Which I am still pissed off about ). Basically the whole Apple Music, still as it is today is designed around Discovery. ( Edit: You can tell by its UI design evolution over the years, how it subtly changes. No Bookmark artist button, no back button.. etc ) Whether it was the original "Next Song", or curated playlist, or Beats Radio. Apple wants people to discover new music. ( Which is actually a noble Goal ) The problem is large percentage of people dont discover Music on Apple Music, it was mostly though other media, offline playing ( where Shazam comes in ) or people just want to listen to old music. In that what people want is a Distribution Point.

For English Speaking Countries Apple Music seems to be doing OK for that curation and Discovery. Especially in US. Elsewhere the same formula hasn't worked at all. [2]

Consider Apple has 1 Billion iPhone users, compared to 2.5B Android ( Excluding China ), with App Spending power 4 times the average of Android users. And Apple Music, after 5 years, with it being default on iOS ecosystem, still does not have half the paying users as Spotify is saying something.

That is not to say Spotify is perfect ( Far from it ).

Note: But it didn't matter much because Music Streaming Services is a Net Zero Profit Margin Business.

[1] https://www.cnet.com/news/beats-curated-music-service-headin...

[2] https://atadistance.net/2018/02/04/homepod-and-the-apple-mus...

Re: Apple quietly stops selling Bose, Sonos and some Logitech gear

#79

Post by AmericanChopper » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 7:31 AM UTC

lstamour wrote: post #75

AmericanChopper wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like exactly the sort of vague menace the headline is designed to drum up. Nobody is captive to the Apple store. There is literally thousands of other places anybody could buy peripherals from. And if you’ve spent much time looking at what they stock, you might notice that Apple tends to stock more peripherals in the categories that it’s not very good at making in house, so the exact opposite inference co…

I think you’ve misunderstood my points in your second paragraph. I’m only suggesting a captive audience as in “those browsing to buy on Apple.com what is compatible with their iPhone/iPad/Mac/etc.” And the exact opposite inference is: “a pivot toward Apple selling more third-party devices that don’t directly act as accessories for their own products first and best” — which doesn’t make sense. Maybe the confusion is o…

> I’m only suggesting a captive audience as in “those browsing to buy on Apple.com what is compatible with their iPhone/iPad/Mac/etc.”

This is even more outright ridiculous than your last claim. Nobody is help captive at the Apple store. If you're browsing apple.com for a product, your captivity ends buy opening the website of any other online retailer. Yet, you somehow manage to go further into some insane rabbit hole by suggesting that because a few 3rd products were dropped by the online Apple store, that this is a signal that Apple is start dropping support for 3rd party peripherals? When people say that HN just automatically hates anything Apple does, this is exactly what they're talking about. There's no rationale to a comment like this, it literally just comes off as deranged.

Apple often does make "the best" accessories for it's own devices, but it doesn't always, and the 3rd party ones work just as well. My Sony headphones work just as well with my iPhone as my Beats ones do. Apple doesn't even make the best mouse for Macbooks or iPads. Logitech does. There is not a single ounce of reality in anything you just said.

Re: Apple quietly stops selling Bose, Sonos and some Logitech gear

#80

Post by baq » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 8:00 AM UTC

notJim wrote: post #45

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was blown away when I found out they don’t work as a simple AUX device. My friend has homepods but she was using TV speakers because they can’t accept TV audio. She said it kind of works with Apple TV but audio sync is an issue and that still leaves out things like Nintendo Switch games or movies played off a laptop. Crazy to me that they don’t have AUX in. She recently got a pair of $130 powered speakers from amaz…

That's not really what this type of speaker is for. It's more a speaker for your bedroom or kitchen that you use from your phone or via voice. My Sonos One doesn't have Aux in either, although some of the other speakers do.

denon's small portable HEOS 1/3 could do stereo pair since approximately forever and they had aux in - disclaimer: i haven't ever tested if the two features can work together.