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.NET Orleans

dotnet.github.io

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Re: .NET Orleans

#121

Post by manigandham »

mattferderer wrote: post #113
manigandham wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can already do that by running Node with SSR (or any npm/js code) in .NET using Node Services [1] or use ReactJS.NET that packages everything for you [2]. But Microsoft won't officially do any more since they have Blazor which lets you run C#/.NET in the browser with both client-side WASM and server-side SignalR/websocket running modes. It's much more advanced and functional than React already. [3] 1. https://cha…

Sadly Node Services has gone the way of the Dodo bird. I'm not aware of any replacement. https://github.com/dotnet/aspnetcore/issues/12890

Yea I'm in that thread. It's no longer maintained by Microsoft but the code still exists and runs just fine, and there's not much to maintain other than keeping up with the Node releases and API changes.

The closest community project is https://github.com/JeringTech/Javascript.NodeJS and should be a drop-in replacement for `INodeServices`

If you just want V8/JS scripting then there's https://github.com/microsoft/ClearScript

Re: .NET Orleans

#122

Post by manigandham »

atombender wrote: post #114
tmpz22 wrote: post #81

I spent some time learning dotnet core this year and with the slow-grind progress Microsoft has made it really does look like the technology stack might start to replace Java, Go, Rails, NodeJS, over the next decade. You can really feel Microsoft's experience in language development and enterprise software development coming together to provide better ecosystem ergonomics than other frameworks and toolchains. Specifi…

.NET is starting to look nice on Linux and macOS. I'm very disappointed that AOT compilation has apparently fallen on the wayside, though. CoreRT was supposed to bring full AOT to C#, and that project is still in alpha with a disclaimer saying there are no plans to make it production-ready. LLILC, the compiler that targets LLVM, is also not production ready. Anyone know what's going on?

Officially it's been pushed back. The priority has been the unification of all the different runtimes and platforms first, which is coming with the big .NET 5 release.

Re: .NET Orleans

#123

Post by brknckspd »

reubenbond wrote: post #59
ourmandave wrote: post #53

It was created by Microsoft Research and introduced the Virtual Actor Model as a novel approach to building a new generation of distributed systems for the Cloud era. Hmmm, getting a very strong Microsoft Enterprise Library vibe. The Microsoft Enterprise Library is a set of tools and programming libraries for the Microsoft .NET Framework. It provides APIs to facilitate proven practices in core areas of programming. P…

My opinion is biased, as a core developer, but I do not think it's packed full of design patterns. Orleans and the core team are relatively unopinionated on design patterns that developers employ. I'm much more concerned with developers writing code which cannot perform well at scale, or which becomes unreliable at scale, where machine failures are common, than I am with whether or not something fits some set of pres…

> I'm much more concerned with developers writing code which cannot perform well at scale, or which becomes unreliable at scale, where machine failures are common

Would you mind expanding (or linking to a documentation) on how Orleans enables reliable systems?

I watched this talk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OMXw0CslKE) that uses an example web application called Smilr to demonstrate some of the features of Orleans. However, that talk doesn't really go into detail on how failures are handled.

For example, in the Smilr app, each 'Event' grain is responsible for notifying an 'Aggregator' grain whenever it comes into existence (or an existing one has its updated). What happens when a call from Event grain to Aggregator grain fails? Who is responsible for retrying?

Link to the code - https://github.com/benc-uk/smilr/blob/master/orleans/Grains/...

Re: .NET Orleans

#124

Post by ricksharp »

x0n wrote: post #106
celdon25 wrote: post #74

> Orleans builds on the developer productivity of .NET As someone who has developed with .NET (using VB, C#, F#) for almost 15 years, I am not sure if I would still advertise .NET as something focused on developer productivity, when in the context of introducing bleeding edge tech. It is a great framework, but I've found much more productivity with Elixir after just 1 year of using it. C# still suffers from statefuln…

I think maybe you stepped out of .net at the wrong time. Pattern matching, records, discriminated unions (c# 10) etc are here and on they way. Lots of functional features being integrated into C# with every update.

I’ve been using C# since 2003, but I’m still 5 times faster in typescript & react.

Besides that the typescript type system is insane. It’s cool to hear about discriminated unions though.

Re: .NET Orleans

#126

Post by withinboredom »

to11mtm wrote: post #38
rattray wrote: post #2

> It was created by Microsoft Research and introduced the Virtual Actor Model as a novel approach to building a new generation of distributed systems for the Cloud era. Okay, sounds like an academic, Microsofty take on Erlang's Actors? But from docs, sounds like it's at least used in practice at MSFT: > Since 2011, it has been used extensively in the cloud and on premises by several Microsoft product groups, most not…

Academically (And, to some extent, practically speaking) Orleans Virtual actors aren't the same as Erlang (or Akka) actors. Major differences: - Normal actors are pretty flexible, can work in local or remote contexts. Orleans is probably best described as Sharded Actors, It's a 'guided' implementation of Actors compared to Erlang or Akka where you are given a toolkit and have to build out what you intend to do. - Orl…

> A stable and properly configured Akka Shard cluster will never have more than one of the same entity actor alive at a time.

So you're telling me that during a network partition, Akka will somehow know that the entity actor is alive and well in (one of) the other partition(s) and won't start a new one?

Re: .NET Orleans

#127

Post by atombender »

manigandham wrote: post #122
atombender wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.NET is starting to look nice on Linux and macOS. I'm very disappointed that AOT compilation has apparently fallen on the wayside, though. CoreRT was supposed to bring full AOT to C#, and that project is still in alpha with a disclaimer saying there are no plans to make it production-ready. LLILC, the compiler that targets LLVM, is also not production ready. Anyone know what's going on?

Officially it's been pushed back. The priority has been the unification of all the different runtimes and platforms first, which is coming with the big .NET 5 release.

Is there a document describing this plan? Will this replace .NET Core, CoreRT, etc.?

As someone who isn't a .NET developer, the sheer proliferation of runtimes and platforms is super confusing, and I can never remember what's what between, .NET, .NET Native, .NET Framework, .NET Core, Mono, CoreRT, etc. If this is getting cleaned up, that's great news.

Re: .NET Orleans

#128

Post by greggman3 »

boogies wrote: post #88
tmpz22 wrote: post #81

I spent some time learning dotnet core this year and with the slow-grind progress Microsoft has made it really does look like the technology stack might start to replace Java, Go, Rails, NodeJS, over the next decade. You can really feel Microsoft's experience in language development and enterprise software development coming together to provide better ecosystem ergonomics than other frameworks and toolchains. Specifi…

> its coming to dominate the games industry as well Really? I was of the impression that Unity C# is the old, established player in this space, while Godot (which supports C# but doesn’t force it at all) is growing among hobbyists and indies and may eventually pass the current popularity of Blender in VFX and go on to dominate the games industry in a few years or a decade.

That's seems like very wishful thinking. Why would you assume Godot would ever be able to truly complete with Unity (or Unreal). It's got 1/10th the features and probably 1/100th to engineers. Also less support, less people using it, less people teaching it, less people creating tutorials for it, etc... etc...

Re: .NET Orleans

#129

Post by strangeattractr »

manigandham wrote: post #101
FridgeSeal wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a "Microsoft Framework", it's going to be enterprise-y Design-Patterns, convoluted abstractions, Dependency-Injection-on-Dependency-Injection and MS specific code/libs all the way down.

None of the Microsoft frameworks are like that, especially compared to the enterprise mess of Java or constant spaghetti of JS/Go.

> constant spaghetti of JS/Go.

I've written a lot of Go and there are plenty of faults but I'm curious why you consider it 'constant spaghetti' apparently in the same class as JS.

Re: .NET Orleans

#130

Post by spaetzleesser »

atombender wrote: post #127
manigandham wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Officially it's been pushed back. The priority has been the unification of all the different runtimes and platforms first, which is coming with the big .NET 5 release.

Is there a document describing this plan? Will this replace .NET Core, CoreRT, etc.? As someone who isn't a .NET developer, the sheer proliferation of runtimes and platforms is super confusing, and I can never remember what's what between, .NET, .NET Native, .NET Framework, .NET Core, Mono, CoreRT, etc. If this is getting cleaned up, that's great news.

As far as .NET goes, MS has a long history of confusing messaging. As soon as something gets traction it either gets obsoleted or renamed. They would do themselves a big favor if they made it easier for people to understand the different versions.
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