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Bison and wolf populations are reviving in parts of Europe

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Re: Bison and wolf populations are reviving in parts of Europe

#61

Post by EdwardDiego »

samatman wrote: post #59
alistairSH wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused. In America... The elk is a really big deer... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elk Moose is a giant deer (bigger than elk) with a bulbous nose... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moose If Europe refers to moose as elk, what do they call elk?

Elk in the UK are referred to as red deer, though recent taxonomy has decided they are a different, albeit closely related, species. I don't know what they're called in other languages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_deer

We call American elk wapiti in NZ, which I guess is a Native American name for them, and we consider them to be distinct from red deer - there's active management of the wapiti population (which is limited to Fiordland) to try to minimise hybridisation with red deer.

Re: Bison and wolf populations are reviving in parts of Europe

#62

Post by samatman »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #61
samatman wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elk in the UK are referred to as red deer, though recent taxonomy has decided they are a different, albeit closely related, species. I don't know what they're called in other languages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_deer

We call American elk wapiti in NZ, which I guess is a Native American name for them, and we consider them to be distinct from red deer - there's active management of the wapiti population (which is limited to Fiordland) to try to minimise hybridisation with red deer.

We call them wapiti as well, sometimes. It's more common in Canada.

The line between a species and subspecies is blurry. I know for a fact that when I was a child, red deer and elk/wapiti were considered the same species, just like the Neanderthal were considered a subspecies of homo sapiens. I guess the splitters are ascendant in recent times.

Re: Bison and wolf populations are reviving in parts of Europe

#63

Post by jamil7 »

lumberjack wrote: post #22

These environmentalists come off as quite selfish if I might say so. They take public land who belongs to all and redevelop it into their "dream" whatever it may be, and they do not care at all how it impact other people who previously used that public land or people who live nearby. I am not a big fan of these rewilding policies. There are only a few open spaces left where one could previously take a relaxing hike (…

Because humans have taken so little land for our needs? I can’t think of anything more boring and depressing than hiking in an area ‘sanitised’ of wildlife. Ironically this comment and attitude is what’s really selfish, these animals pose little threat to you. What does pose a threat to you is widespread biodiversity loss.

Re: Bison and wolf populations are reviving in parts of Europe

#64

Post by Pinus »

alistairSH wrote: post #51
thursday0987 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in america, moose are elks. in europe, elks are moose.

I'm confused. In America... The elk is a really big deer... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elk Moose is a giant deer (bigger than elk) with a bulbous nose... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moose If Europe refers to moose as elk, what do they call elk?

Most people in Europe do not use English as their everyday language, and those who do have neither Alces alces nor Cervus canandensis at hand to look at. Which is probably why they got it wrong and applied the word "elk" to the wrong animal once they got across the pond. They should have asked some Scandinavians. :-)

Re: Bison and wolf populations are reviving in parts of Europe

#65

Post by fractallyte »

lumberjack wrote: post #22

These environmentalists come off as quite selfish if I might say so. They take public land who belongs to all and redevelop it into their "dream" whatever it may be, and they do not care at all how it impact other people who previously used that public land or people who live nearby. I am not a big fan of these rewilding policies. There are only a few open spaces left where one could previously take a relaxing hike (…

If you want 'safe', stay in a park.

These might give you some perspective about how drastic (and devastating) the decline has been - all due to humans:

https://xkcd.com/1338/

https://imgur.com/gallery/9v4HV2p

Re: Bison and wolf populations are reviving in parts of Europe

#66

Post by magicalhippo »

alistairSH wrote: post #51
thursday0987 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in america, moose are elks. in europe, elks are moose.

I'm confused. In America... The elk is a really big deer... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elk Moose is a giant deer (bigger than elk) with a bulbous nose... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moose If Europe refers to moose as elk, what do they call elk?

The Norwegian Wikipedia article calls our "elg" for Alces alces, while saying the larger American moose is considered a sub-species Alces americanus.

[1]: https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elg

Re: Bison and wolf populations are reviving in parts of Europe

#67

Post by celerrimus »

In Poland we had quite large population of wild animals. It's estimated that we have population of over 2.000 wolves, they need large territories so it's natural to migrate outside the borders. Hopefully they will be protected everywhere at same level. I never heard here about threat to humans (we as a nation spend a lot time in forests for mushroom and berries picking, recreation, etc) beside rumours and fake news ignited by hunters - they want to end strict wolf protection to be able to hunt for them.

Wolves were always here in Poland, and now they are already on most polish territory, even near big cities. They are in forests just outside Warsaw, my friend is now hearing wolf pack 30km outside from Gdansk in northern Poland. Of course that farmers reports loses and this is some cost for the state, that is paying out for those.

But this is our european heritage and we need to make everything to preserve it. Nothing to be afraid of.

Re: Bison and wolf populations are reviving in parts of Europe

#69

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

dkarl wrote: post #28
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people live in cities, which makes them think of wolves as a cute, awesome, protect-at-all-cost animal with no downsides. The farmers are in the minority, which means the problem has to become pretty bad to get the majority of the public on their side.

The majority of the public might not be enough in a democracy, depending on the political structure. A passionate and engaged minority can stop something that a majority passively approves of, plus there are issues of regional control that might make it difficult for an urban majority to dictate policy in rural areas.

Except the passionate minority here are the environmentalists who will put up huge billboards with appeals to emotion to stop a heartless law from killing poor innocent wild animals.

Re: Bison and wolf populations are reviving in parts of Europe

#70

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

akiselev wrote: post #34
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people live in cities, which makes them think of wolves as a cute, awesome, protect-at-all-cost animal with no downsides. The farmers are in the minority, which means the problem has to become pretty bad to get the majority of the public on their side.

Most people I know think of wolves as the bigger, meaner brothers of coyotes, which are definitely a concern for anyone with a pet in much of the west and east coast (the latter of which now have dog-wolf-coyote hybrids...).

Wildlife is generally not considered a concern in some parts of Europe.

As in, I'm not sure you could get yourself killed by the local wild fauna in Germany if you actively tried.

I found a listicle claiming to contain the 10 most toxic animals, and it's basically a "don't eat this one, that thing can kill you if you're both extremely allergic and unlucky, this snake is technically venomous but good luck getting it to actually bite you and if it does it's easily treated" etc.

First, you'd have to find something dangerous (like the one single bear), then you'd have to convince it to attack you instead of just running away. Your best bet is probably actively looking for a group of boar at night and trying to piss them off.

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