Earlier quoted context omitted.
My 4th order Runge-Kutta ODE solver I did in an afternoon in Excel the other day, because I didn't want to pirate Matlab to do a homework assignment, begs to differ :). Not to mention, the entire financial industry and many (most?) small businesses. Lots of people use Excel for various types of math, and it works fine, if you know what you're doing . Excel not being idiot-proof doesn't mean it's not usable. And that'…
Having worked in the financial industry, my first job was writing a system to cover for a $10m fuck up in excel where yahoo exchange rates stopped updating and the same spreadsheet was used for a few weeks until someone noticed "Shit, we're losing a lot of money here.". Excel is the right solution in the same way playdoh is a valid building material.
Missing Covid-19 test data was caused by the ill-thought-out use of Excel
451–460 of 834 posts
Re: Missing Covid-19 test data was caused by the ill-thought-out use of Excel
#452Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Not to mention, the entire financial industry That IS the dumpster fire. Trust me, the reason I know is that I used to be that guy who thought Excel was a great tool. I built derivatives spreadsheets, backoffice spreadsheets, trading systems with realtime data, all sorts of crap in Excel. Really, it's Stockholm Syndrome. People who previously had zero computing power at their disposal think they've found the hammer…
You bring up some very good points. But to those, I have a question: what is the alternative? Both now (for UK healthcare), and in general? The "people who previously had zero computing power at their disposal" may be wrong in thinking "they've found the hammer that solves all problems" - but there's literally no other hammer available for them. They're not programmers, they won't write their own software (nor would…
Re: Missing Covid-19 test data was caused by the ill-thought-out use of Excel
#453Earlier quoted context omitted.
Having worked in the financial industry, my first job was writing a system to cover for a $10m fuck up in excel where yahoo exchange rates stopped updating and the same spreadsheet was used for a few weeks until someone noticed "Shit, we're losing a lot of money here.". Excel is the right solution in the same way playdoh is a valid building material.
Seems seems there were at least a couple of problems here. Why were financial professionals using Yahoo as a source of exchange rates?
Re: Missing Covid-19 test data was caused by the ill-thought-out use of Excel
#454Earlier quoted context omitted.
That would imply non-tech people having some surprisingly deep visibility into technical details. What they really see is Excel vs. some contractor doing "a system". The reality is that Excel is available today and works, and scales up... well, until it doesn't. Still, you have data entry that everybody in the field understands, that's rock solid (so no need to unit test anything), and has a tried and true authentica…
Couldn't you achieve exactly what was needed here with Airtable? Or, easier yet, Google Sheets and a Google Form?
Re: Missing Covid-19 test data was caused by the ill-thought-out use of Excel
#455Earlier quoted context omitted.
The same way that engineers saying you shouldn't use dung to build houses are guilty of architectural elitism. Excel is the wrong tool because it mixes presentation and data, to the point that geneticists had to change the names of genes so their spreadsheets would stop turning them silently into dates and then destructively changing the original data[0]. >Excel works great - I've personally built some very complicat…
This geneticist thing is a complete misunderstanding. Excel is tuned to autoconvert things that look like dates to dates. Best would be to be able to disable this, but Microsoft research shows that more users need it. Meanwhile scientists use Excel for lots of stuff.. since it works. It has a not nice "feature" of those conversions. So option 1) throw away the tool you use every day 2) change the gene name Option 2 m…
Re: Missing Covid-19 test data was caused by the ill-thought-out use of Excel
#456Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Not to mention, the entire financial industry That IS the dumpster fire. Trust me, the reason I know is that I used to be that guy who thought Excel was a great tool. I built derivatives spreadsheets, backoffice spreadsheets, trading systems with realtime data, all sorts of crap in Excel. Really, it's Stockholm Syndrome. People who previously had zero computing power at their disposal think they've found the hammer…
> It's just that you get a lot of "coding is a thing I have to do in order to get to some target", and so people think that once they've finally bashed out their spreadsheet, they've figured it all out. I have a friend who wrote a 641-line long bash script to automate a web site. It doesn't use subroutines anywhere, the body for the program is a 550 line long loop with multiple if statements and loops inside it. He t…
What??
What school or book did he read that made him think that was a good idea?
Re: Missing Covid-19 test data was caused by the ill-thought-out use of Excel
#457The problem is that anyone who isn't a decent coder think excel is a sensible choice for this, because they've seen it in their school or work. So when the proposals come in, you're going to see one guy who says it's all common sense and we use familiar old excel for everything, and another lunatic who says something called "pigsqueal" is actually the standard, connected to a "frontend" which for some reason is now s…
> "But you wouldn't use XLS. Nobody would start with that."
Actually almost every non-technical person I know that wants something "database like" ends up in google sheets or excel first.
Re: Missing Covid-19 test data was caused by the ill-thought-out use of Excel
#458Earlier quoted context omitted.
That would imply non-tech people having some surprisingly deep visibility into technical details. What they really see is Excel vs. some contractor doing "a system". The reality is that Excel is available today and works, and scales up... well, until it doesn't. Still, you have data entry that everybody in the field understands, that's rock solid (so no need to unit test anything), and has a tried and true authentica…
Excel never works for math, at any scale. It's a constant trashfire of "looks fine" until it shows a result someone doesn't want, and then an error is found that changes results and the cycle repeats. Excel is nice for visualizing and browsing data you already have, and informally searching and sorting for hypothesis generation.
Getting from infinite capacity planner to the finite version took quite a while!
I don't think you can fault the tool. VBA in a spreadsheet gives you a lot of power but it needs discipline to wield correctly. I used to have a row at the bottom of all my tables with the word "End" in tiny text in each column, always formatted white on red. All my routines that ran down the table to look up and do something would always look for that signal that the end had been found. Nearly all formulae were entered by VBA. I had auditing routines that would test the various sheets for errors - I suppose I "discovered" unit tests. One of them looked for a row of text with specific formatting ... Another obvious check is having row and column sums cross checking each other. I (re)discovered loads of little things like that.
With care a spreadsheet can be quite handy for all sorts of tasks but please don't equate the ill advised monstrosities you (and I) might have come across in the past with a fault in the tool itself.
Anyway, there is a lot more to this story than that and back then I had a IBM System/36 running the show as well to worry about. Twinax is a right old laugh to deal with. I remember going to Eng and asking to borrow a spanner and a soldering iron - "but you're Planning, what do you need those for".
Sorry, started waffling 8)
(v) How to forecast demand from the multiples in the UK for pasties, sausage rolls etc, back in the day. There are two cycles one is weekly and the other is roughly annual, with peaks and sometimes spikes at Easter and Christmas and some upticks at bank holidays. The weekly one literally looks like a sine wave, the annual one is a bit more involved. As a first go, take the last three orders by day of week for a product and calculate an exponentially smoothed forecast for next week. For example take the last three Mondays to get next Mondays's forecast. Bear in mind that you need to prep, make, bake, chill and wrap the product and ship to depot with about seven to 11 days shelf life and it takes something like one to three days to do that. You are always making to forecast, which is quite tricky. This was about 25 years ago but Asda, Nisa, Lidl etc used to take our forecast and fax/EDI it back as an order without changes.
Re: Missing Covid-19 test data was caused by the ill-thought-out use of Excel
#459Tools such as Excel or PowerPoint are almost "too good" as in they allowed users to come up with usage which aren't what the software was made for.
As others have said regarding Excel, it's not so much what it's capable of but what you do with it and how you do it.
I've seen people using Excel as a tool for trading, as an inventory database for a warehouse, as a shared database to track task progress, as a Gantt chart, as a calendar and so on.
PowerPoint is the same. Who hasn't been given a PPT file as a manual for something?
"Oh, it's all in the powerpoint".
Or been given the same kind of file to familiarize yourself about something at your (new) workplace. Issue is you rarely have any of the material the speaker used to present the whole thing so you're left wondering about the meaning of it all while reading bullet point lists...
No, a powerpoint is not a proper doc...
So in a way, I have to applaud MS as they did great with these but almost too great...
Re: Missing Covid-19 test data was caused by the ill-thought-out use of Excel
#460Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seems seems there were at least a couple of problems here. Why were financial professionals using Yahoo as a source of exchange rates?
Because excel couldn't authenticate into our internal server and it was good enough.