Considering how long this outage has been going on, I'm very interested in reading the post-mortem on this.
Users may be unable to connect or experiencing degraded performance
211–220 of 225 posts
Re: Users may be unable to connect or experiencing degraded performance
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you work for yourself or someone else? If the latter, why do you spend any effort maximizing your efficiency? This is a pattern that I see often on HN. People take an employer's problem (they are wasting the time they've purchased with distractions) and making it their personal problem.
Some people try to approach an employment relationship as one of good faith, rather than an adversarial one where you try to do the minimum amount of work without getting fired. Plus, investing in your craft has long term benefits for your career and skill set.
I don't think there's anything adversarial about simply doing what you're asked to the best of your ability. I might occasionally drop a tidbit of advice about how I could be used more effectively, but ultimately that's not my decision. Just because I perceive it to be wasteful doesn't mean it is to the person signing the checks.
Regarding long term investment. For most people at most companies long term (more than 2-3 years) investment means moving to a better job somewhere else. Investing in your future is figuring out how to get the next job, not maximizing one aspect of your current job that your employer doesn't even seem concerned about.
Re: Users may be unable to connect or experiencing degraded performance
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
I understand it as another way of saying "things have been bad lately", and not as blaming a particular slice of time. :shrug: Won't argue though - it is amusing.
That's pretty much it. We've come to framing things in units we can understand. "Today is going to be a great day", "Yesterday sucked", "Here's to a new year", blah blah
I'm not sure I understand your argument. Would you rather people frame things in units they don't understand? What's your point?
Re: Users may be unable to connect or experiencing degraded performance
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
At the risk of sounding like Neil DeGrasse Tyson, I find it funny how pretty much all of us on this planet is blaming things on 2020 year where it is just an arbitrary slice of time we've created. People need something to fall back on and console themselves. Edit: Folks, I was kind of half joking and making fun of NDT. And we're discussing the definition of "Arbitary" and harvesting seasons. Lighten up people.
> year where it is just an arbitrary slice of time we've created "arbitrary" defined as "based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system" . Since a year is one revolution around the sun, our source of energy, it doesn't seem arbitrary at all. Between the rotations of the earth (day/night), revolutions around the sun, changing of the seasons, phases of the moon, we basically live in a clock.
Right, there's nothing arbitrary about harvesting crops. We plant pumpkins at a certain time of year and harvest them in another, that time of year is always the same. I totally have not been playing Farming Together for the past week straight (kill meeee).
Re: Users may be unable to connect or experiencing degraded performance
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
At the risk of sounding like Neil DeGrasse Tyson, I find it funny how pretty much all of us on this planet is blaming things on 2020 year where it is just an arbitrary slice of time we've created. People need something to fall back on and console themselves. Edit: Folks, I was kind of half joking and making fun of NDT. And we're discussing the definition of "Arbitary" and harvesting seasons. Lighten up people.
How is it arbitrary? It's an extremely meaningful measurement of time. Most life around the entire world revolves around the four seasons that we've designated as a 'year'. That includes humans as well. Did Neil DeGrasse Tyson really say this? Seems very close-minded, as if physics is somehow more meaningful than the only thing that actually makes it worth anything at all. Life.
No, that's not something he said, but you could hear his voice saying something along the lines of the "stars used as reference during your 2020 were clearly not the correct stars"
Re: Users may be unable to connect or experiencing degraded performance
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
At the risk of sounding like Neil DeGrasse Tyson, I find it funny how pretty much all of us on this planet is blaming things on 2020 year where it is just an arbitrary slice of time we've created. People need something to fall back on and console themselves. Edit: Folks, I was kind of half joking and making fun of NDT. And we're discussing the definition of "Arbitary" and harvesting seasons. Lighten up people.
How is it arbitrary? It's an extremely meaningful measurement of time. Most life around the entire world revolves around the four seasons that we've designated as a 'year'. That includes humans as well. Did Neil DeGrasse Tyson really say this? Seems very close-minded, as if physics is somehow more meaningful than the only thing that actually makes it worth anything at all. Life.
Just go on his twitter and see it for yourself - this is the kind of stuff he keeps tweeting about!
Re: Users may be unable to connect or experiencing degraded performance
#217This backend outage reveals how horrible the Slack UI is implemented. You post a message.... you think it got sent. Then 1min later, it tells you it was not.
> tells you it was not. At which point there is no option to cancel and say "you know what... don't send it". If you notice it 24 hours later, your choices are (1) be nagged about retrying it forever or (2) retry sending a message that may now be irrelevant. When it comes to retries, the easiest thing for the user is for the software to be responsible for retrying failed actions. Choosing not to do that makes sense I…
Can you not delete the message after it fails?
Re: Users may be unable to connect or experiencing degraded performance
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
> tells you it was not. At which point there is no option to cancel and say "you know what... don't send it". If you notice it 24 hours later, your choices are (1) be nagged about retrying it forever or (2) retry sending a message that may now be irrelevant. When it comes to retries, the easiest thing for the user is for the software to be responsible for retrying failed actions. Choosing not to do that makes sense I…
Can you not delete the message after it fails?
OK, that's a good question. I can't recall that there's a way to. But I can't reproduce it now to test it and answer definitively.
Re: Users may be unable to connect or experiencing degraded performance
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
I could be wrong but i'm relatively sure that I reach message states that do not directly correspond to anything i typed into the editor -- which i wouldn't expect if the edited state was always sent in full rather than as a delta on a previous message state. I suppose it's possible that the corruption happens on the client side tho -- 1. initiate edit action and get editable view of snapshot of text 2. server acks s…
This is just super unlikely as you describe it. There's no reason for deltas and fancy mechanisms when you can only edit your own messages. It would be a waste of resources to do it like this for short messages.
I don't know the specific implementation mechanism -- just guesses.
But that doesn't mean my observation of the behavior of the bug is unlikely.
And also -- there is not a hard requirement that only one editor exists -- the same user could use multiple devices at the same time. Consider that and you might find your assumptions to be invalid.
Re: Users may be unable to connect or experiencing degraded performance
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
For simplicity, you could use the fraction of api calls that our service level objectives. Google/SRE calls it "aggregate availability". https://landing.google.com/sre/sre-book/chapters/embracing-r...
Yeah, this problem has a pretty obvious solution that is implemented by many teams: find a unit of work that we can measure success and failure over, report an aggregate metric over a specified time interval for availability tracking and plotting: # units successful / total # of units
To be fair, that has problems like counting "do this thing; do that thing" twice as much as "do these four things" rather than vice-versa. Still useful though.