Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#121

Post by sorenjan » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 7:00 PM UTC

ogre_codes wrote: post #56

One of the reasons I would love to have autopilot is because I have a history of dozing off at the wheel. Never so much where I've had an accident, but bad enough where I've scared myself badly. I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do . I'd vastly prefer if the car noticed I was inattentive that it notified me. My feeling is for long drives this would be a safety feature, b…

You're describing driver drowsiness detection, and that is available in a lot of different cars, and was launched in 2007 by Volvo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_drowsiness_detection

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#122

Post by ghufran_syed » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 7:02 PM UTC

ogre_codes wrote: post #111

gamblor956 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some states your medical condition would prevent you from getting (or renewing) a driver's license. You need to talk to a doctor immediately because you're an active risk to other people on the road.

FWIW, I'm pretty sure "5 hours of mountain biking", having post-ride food with buddies then driving home isn't considered a medical condition. Mostly just doing something physically tiring and having a full stomach, plus being in a monotonous 1-2 hour drive is a recipe for sleep. Thus my comment below about taking a nap and having company on the return trip.

I agree - the problem with a lot of the replies to your comment is that everyone’s mental image of what you mean by “history of dozing off at the wheel” differs. I would guess that most drivers, and certainly every doctor who drives has “nodded off” at least once in their life. And you’re right, most of these situations are not indicative of a medical condition.

I think it’s true that every driver should take responsibility for their own internal state, and do whatever they can to ensure they don’t drive in an impaired state, whether that’s just getting enough sleep, avoiding alcohol or certain meds, or being prepared to pull off the road and nap.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#123

Post by orbital-decay » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 7:03 PM UTC

ogre_codes wrote: post #71

cptskippy wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a history of dozing off at the wheel. Have you tried to address this issue? This seems like a huge safety concern and you're actively choosing to put others in harms way by continuing to drive.

Yes. Mostly I just learned to recognize when I'm getting tired and pull over and take a nap which is a massive help. Also, it's pretty uncommon for me to drive solo anymore so it's far less of an issue. Oddly, it was a bigger issue when I was younger. It hasn't happened to me in quite a few years, but the awareness of it has lingered, thus my desire to take extra precautions.

>Also, it's pretty uncommon for me to drive solo anymore so it's far less of an issue.

There's almost nothing a person in another seat can do if you are asleep, even if they realize that in time (and that's a huge assumption). Speaking as someone who has unhealthy interest at failures, disasters, and their root causes, this type of attitude is super common, and always leads to disasters. Please seek medical attention before you killed somebody and yourself. You can't rely on self-control.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#124

Post by agentdrtran » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 7:04 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #112

ogre_codes wrote: post #56

One of the reasons I would love to have autopilot is because I have a history of dozing off at the wheel. Never so much where I've had an accident, but bad enough where I've scared myself badly. I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do . I'd vastly prefer if the car noticed I was inattentive that it notified me. My feeling is for long drives this would be a safety feature, b…

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…

You know people are going to do it, though, so it's good to have checks on it.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#125

Post by 14 » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 7:06 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #112

ogre_codes wrote: post #56

One of the reasons I would love to have autopilot is because I have a history of dozing off at the wheel. Never so much where I've had an accident, but bad enough where I've scared myself badly. I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do . I'd vastly prefer if the car noticed I was inattentive that it notified me. My feeling is for long drives this would be a safety feature, b…

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…

I have the unfortunate ability to be wide awake when I leave and then suddenly be tired. I often have to stop on even 1-2 hour drives. But I recognize when I am tired and am know for just pulling over to nap even if I have passengers. Sleep driving is like drunk driving.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#126

Post by danudey » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 7:07 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #112

ogre_codes wrote: post #56

One of the reasons I would love to have autopilot is because I have a history of dozing off at the wheel. Never so much where I've had an accident, but bad enough where I've scared myself badly. I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do . I'd vastly prefer if the car noticed I was inattentive that it notified me. My feeling is for long drives this would be a safety feature, b…

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…

This sort of technology would be great, even if the data never leaves the user's account, is never farmed by Tesla, and is never used by the autopilot.

Imagine if the parent poster falls asleep at the wheel and does injure or kill someone. They could point to the fact that it's never happened before, but if the court can subpoena Tesla to get data that indicates this guy dozes off with some regularity (and can see indications that he knew about it), then he's going to face a harsher sentence, possibly even bumping it up from involuntary manslaughter to second degree murder if they can argue that it was extremely reckless disregard.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#127

Post by closeparen » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 7:13 PM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #67

ogre_codes wrote: post #56

One of the reasons I would love to have autopilot is because I have a history of dozing off at the wheel. Never so much where I've had an accident, but bad enough where I've scared myself badly. I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do . I'd vastly prefer if the car noticed I was inattentive that it notified me. My feeling is for long drives this would be a safety feature, b…

In some states your medical condition would prevent you from getting (or renewing) a driver's license. You need to talk to a doctor immediately because you're an active risk to other people on the road.

If anyone took this seriously, the hospital would take your drivers license before handing over your newborn.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#128

Post by ZitchDog » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 7:13 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #112

ogre_codes wrote: post #56

One of the reasons I would love to have autopilot is because I have a history of dozing off at the wheel. Never so much where I've had an accident, but bad enough where I've scared myself badly. I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do . I'd vastly prefer if the car noticed I was inattentive that it notified me. My feeling is for long drives this would be a safety feature, b…

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…

We are human, there is always a chance of falling asleep.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#129

Post by huid827 » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 7:14 PM UTC

ogre_codes wrote: post #56

One of the reasons I would love to have autopilot is because I have a history of dozing off at the wheel. Never so much where I've had an accident, but bad enough where I've scared myself badly. I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do . I'd vastly prefer if the car noticed I was inattentive that it notified me. My feeling is for long drives this would be a safety feature, b…

I'm also looking forward to getting autopilot at some point to address situations where I feel pretty drowsy. While yes, the correct thing to do is to not drive, to pull over, and so forth, reality doesn't always allow for those things and it would be nice to have autopilot as a driver aid.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#130

Post by xedeon » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 7:15 PM UTC

jononor wrote: post #115

xedeon wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even close in terms of complexity. I used many of the "Driver Drowsiness" detection from Toyota, BMW and MBenz on my previous cars. They always had false positives, inconsistent and pretty rudimentary. What you're implying is akin to saying Nokia/Ericsson/Palm had smartphones before the iPhone 1 came along. Therefore the iPhone is a non-event. ️ The "hacker" mentioned in this article discovered these detection la…

False positives are a minor annoyance. False negatives are potentially catastrophic. So for this kinds of systems it makes sense to skew towards false positives. It is always a tradeoff.

They were definitely annoying alright. Even the collision detection on our previous MBenz SUV would go off at certain roads that were perfectly clear of obstacles.

Since OTA is not a thing on most cars. This becomes a permanent problem that a dealership cannot fix. Even if they wanted too.

With a Tesla (only one in the industry AFAIK), you can submit a bug report at the exact location via voice and a future software update might address it.