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To Save the Climate, Give Up the Demand for Constant Electricity

bostonreview.net

21–30 of 49 posts

Re: To Save the Climate, Give Up the Demand for Constant Electricity

#21
post #16

I went to the Dominican Republic in the 1990s when the power grid was overloaded. They'd have rolling blackouts in the capitol, first the lights would go out, but the generators would kick in and the hotel you are in would light up, and the houses of rich people, everybody else would be in the dark. The glass factories, the microchip factories, infrastructure that runs aviation, etc. are a different business which ca…

> It can't possibly be economically competitive if it is driving a steam turbine What do you mean by "economic competition"? Generally speaking with current technology there is no power cheaper than nuclear power. In that sense it is the most competitive power there is. But not for private investment funds looking to own power generation and secure huge returns in relatively short term. They'd rather see more expensi…

Not economically competitive with a gas-turbine power plant powered by methane. (almost the same thing as the power plant on a jet airplane)

The real hazard of the current "renewable energy" economy that is when the sun doesn't shine the backup power is generated from methane (aka 'natural gas') which has very high power density and very low capital cost compared to the steam turbine either in a coal or nuclear plant. (If the airplane was propelled by a steam turbine, the turbine would be the size of the fuselage)

Almost no coal plants have been built in the period in which no nuclear plants have been built in the U.S. for pretty much the same reason. The steam turbine is so expensive it wouldn't be worth it even if the heat was free.

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If a new power source can beat fossil fuels in direct economics it saves the planet. The job is done.

With anything that involves forcing somebody to pay somebody else to make something that is allegedly sustainable the one thing you do know is somebody will get rich on the friction, if the earth is saved is beside the point.

If you love your children's grandchildren choose wisely.

Re: To Save the Climate, Give Up the Demand for Constant Electricity

#22
post #5
post #3

This is morally and politically a non-starter. Electricity improves people's lives way too much to be time restricted.

This is why electoralism was, is, and always will be a failure. True global fixes will always require unpopular and unpleasant decisions like this.

What system do you propose that will implement wise unpopular and unpleasant decisions and not foolish ones ... at least more than electoral systems do?

Re: To Save the Climate, Give Up the Demand for Constant Electricity

#23
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It can't possibly be economically competitive if it is driving a steam turbine What do you mean by "economic competition"? Generally speaking with current technology there is no power cheaper than nuclear power. In that sense it is the most competitive power there is. But not for private investment funds looking to own power generation and secure huge returns in relatively short term. They'd rather see more expensi…

Not economically competitive with a gas-turbine power plant powered by methane. (almost the same thing as the power plant on a jet airplane) The real hazard of the current "renewable energy" economy that is when the sun doesn't shine the backup power is generated from methane (aka 'natural gas') which has very high power density and very low capital cost compared to the steam turbine either in a coal or nuclear plant…

> Not economically competitive with a gas-turbine power plant powered by methane.

This assumes natural gas is cheap and not imported, most countries don't have it that way.

Re: To Save the Climate, Give Up the Demand for Constant Electricity

#25
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not economically competitive with a gas-turbine power plant powered by methane. (almost the same thing as the power plant on a jet airplane) The real hazard of the current "renewable energy" economy that is when the sun doesn't shine the backup power is generated from methane (aka 'natural gas') which has very high power density and very low capital cost compared to the steam turbine either in a coal or nuclear plant…

> Not economically competitive with a gas-turbine power plant powered by methane. This assumes natural gas is cheap and not imported, most countries don't have it that way.

More of them will if the "hydrofracking" technology used in the US proliferates.

Re: To Save the Climate, Give Up the Demand for Constant Electricity

#26
Jimmy Carter requested Americans to turn down their thermostats for the Winter and Americans balked (I was alive at that time - he asked to turn it down from 72F to 68F). I can't imagine Americans balking at turning down their thermostats being happy to give up the constant delivery of electricity to their homes. If you're going to ask people to make significant lifestyle changes then you should ask them to make those changes where it would provide the biggest benefit - and that's not the utility sector, it's the transportation sector. Not only is transportation the 2nd largest producer of CO2 (not too far behind electricity) but it also leads to poor local air quality and tens of thousands of vehicle-related deaths. Moreover, I think more Americans would be amenable to a change in transportation over a change in their electric supply.

Re: To Save the Climate, Give Up the Demand for Constant Electricity

#28

I went to the Dominican Republic in the 1990s when the power grid was overloaded. They'd have rolling blackouts in the capitol, first the lights would go out, but the generators would kick in and the hotel you are in would light up, and the houses of rich people, everybody else would be in the dark. The glass factories, the microchip factories, infrastructure that runs aviation, etc. are a different business which ca…

"No base load" is the last refuge of the anti-nuclear-as-a-transition-source anti-science scoundrels.

Re: To Save the Climate, Give Up the Demand for Constant Electricity

#30
I don’t understand why people keep proposing these ideas that we must sacrifice and do without electricity. There are 7 billion people on the planet. Even if you organized to have enough Americans self sacrifice (needlessly) why would you ever expect the rest of the world, in particular the developing world who are trying to raise their living standards, to do the same?

This is not a solution. It’s dead on arrival but it keeps getting rolled out. End this distraction. The year is 2020. Forty years ago France decarbonized its grid in a decade using serialized production of nuclear power. We know how to do this. There is a solution that we have done. We know how it works. It doesn’t require some impossible utopia of self sacrificing humans. Everyone can keep turning on the lights and running their heaters.

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