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Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

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281–290 of 442 posts

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you’re not going to act on an author’s central point, don’t try do any of the other parts (they’ll probably actually be harmful). If you’re not going to copy the central parts of something successful, don’t bother copying the other stuff. > The recipe for success of Silicon Valley is pretty straightforward. It has great colleges, great weather, and weak noncompetes. There are a couple of interesting things about…

Southern France has wonderful weather and the Mediterranean Sea. The EU should start a special economic zone for startups there (a split of later taxes going into the EU budget).

Lisbon maybe getting there

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brexit. It's not just an amicable separation of bureaucracies. If you're in the UK (as I am), the kinds of headlines coming up regularly make it really clear the UK government is trying to not be part of Europe in all sorts of bizarre ways. For example the most recent big deal was the UK has formally decided to break international law by reneging on the UK-EU withdrawal treaty it signed up to less than a year ago. Th…

The European Union is a political and economic union. Europe is a continent. It seems strange to refer to wanting to leave the European Union as wanting to leave Europe. Of course, I'm sure those who support the European Union are generally also very much in favour of it being treated as synonymous with Europe. But it sounds like nothing short of absurd rhetoric to me.

The European Union is definitely not a political union. Full stop.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#283
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huge equity stakes. Huge. Not "align incentives" level stakes. "Google's chef has $26 million" stakes.

got an offer to be the 20th employee or something in a startup as a senior engineer, and they offered me 0.01% of equity or something. I thought that was ridiculously low.

EDIT: Of course my whole calculation was wrong.

Well, it first seemed low to me as well.

But 0.01% of one million is ten thousand, which doesn't sound that bad. One million also seems low for a successful company. The same offer would give you ten billion at apple.

Disclaimer: I am not good at math and I don't understand stocks, equity etc. So maybe I am completely wrong.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#284
post #9

Two things, really: if you turn down an acquisition that you feel your employees supported, you don’t get to do the “surprised pikachu face” when you turn it down and they go work there anyway. Secondly, it’s presented as if these engineers exfiltrated special knowledge with them... isn’t it fair to also give them the benefit of the doubt in that the same employees may have crucially developed the software themselves…

> From any angle, they created an environment that made these guys think “my time will be better spent at Apple”. tbf I don't think many startups running out of cash and exit opportunities would expect to keep their engineers if Apple approached them to offer a pay rise, regardless of how wonderful the environment was. But the idea to raise capital by 'selling' engineers to Apple instead of agreeing to the aquihire (…

I agree 100% - the use of the word “selling” here makes me very uncomfortable - they are employees and they are not company property that is owned.

The “finders fee” response from Apple was the best they could expect.

And yeah then I read about firing the CTO and the lawsuit and I started to get a picture of what this company was like.

I hope they lose, and good luck to the employees at Apple

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My numbers were out of date. Germany has a higher GDP per capita than South Carolina, Alabama, Idaho, West Virginia, Arkansas and Mississippi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Germany

Interesting. Why does Washington DC have almost triple the gdp/capita then California? What do they do that California don’t?

Much smaller area (DC is something like 65 square miles) and population, for one.

But beyond that, my thought is that although you probably have fewer super rich people in DC, you also have way fewer poor people. So the average is going to be higher than even SV.

Plus, the types of jobs in DC proper (so we’re not talking about the extended Maryland and Virginia suburbs) are almost entirely professional/government. It’s also a very expensive place to live.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#286
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect you will see barriers come up over time that make it more difficult for American tech companies in Europe. It makes no sense for the EU to outsource such a valuable part of the economy.

Again, protectionism is a dangerous road. If the EU blocked American tech companies, the US would retaliate in kind. While it's possible that Europe could eventually become self-sustaining if given a friendly environment to grow indigenous tech companies, losing access to every major OS overnight (as just a small example of the potential retaliation) would be a pretty devastating experience for Europe. You can't repl…

It already exists, there are tariffs for American vehicles entering Europe and the US for instance.

>losing access to every major OS overnight

That wouldn't really be in America's interest would it?

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#287
post #283
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

got an offer to be the 20th employee or something in a startup as a senior engineer, and they offered me 0.01% of equity or something. I thought that was ridiculously low.

EDIT: Of course my whole calculation was wrong. Well, it first seemed low to me as well. But 0.01% of one million is ten thousand, which doesn't sound that bad. One million also seems low for a successful company. The same offer would give you ten billion at apple. Disclaimer: I am not good at math and I don't understand stocks, equity etc. So maybe I am completely wrong.

> But 0.01% of one million is ten thousand

1,000,000 USD * (0.01 / 100) = 100 USD, not 10,000 USD. The company would have to be worth 100M USD for 0.01% to be worth 10,000 USD.

> Disclaimer: I am not good at math [...]

Indeed ;-) But don't worry, many a great engineer has made worse mistakes when it comes to shifting the decimal point.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you’re not going to act on an author’s central point, don’t try do any of the other parts (they’ll probably actually be harmful). If you’re not going to copy the central parts of something successful, don’t bother copying the other stuff. > The recipe for success of Silicon Valley is pretty straightforward. It has great colleges, great weather, and weak noncompetes. There are a couple of interesting things about…

Southern France has wonderful weather and the Mediterranean Sea. The EU should start a special economic zone for startups there (a split of later taxes going into the EU budget).

Well, there is already a special economic zone in that area: Monaco.

Don't think it's particularly startup-friendly though.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#289
post #2

"That evidence does suggest the engineers drew on knowledge and skills they gained from Hooked to develop a product for their new employer––but California’s policy favoring free mobility for employees specifically allows that. (See Whyte v. Schlage Lock Co. (2002) 101Cal.App.4th 1443, 1464 [rejecting the “inevitable disclosure” doctrine, under which a claim for trade secret misappropriation is stated if an employee’s…

Exactly correct. I tried to explain this to a public official from an east cost town who was flying back from the Bay Area trying to "learn the secrets" of creating an innovation hub. When I explained this situation (non-competes are illegal, stuff you do at home is yours) to him he literally said "That's crazy! Why would anyone hire anyone if they knew they could walk out the door to a competitor, or even to start a…

I think 'the stuff you do at home is yours' might be a really important part. The reason I do not launch (my probably unsuccessful) saas is because boss would claim ownership once it is succesful (or worse get fired even if not succesful)

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#290

Can you spot the difference? ---------- Hooked points to evidence showing its former employees (in particular its CTO) retained Hooked technical information, accessed it while in Apple’s employ, and gave misleading statements about how much of it they had retained. But showing that the employees had the information is not sufficient to establish Apple improperly acquired or used it... Hooked relies on circumstantial…

Well, two things. First, this was summary judgment in favor of Apple, not the CTO. Summary judgment was not granted in the case against him, although since it has been 6 years and Hooked is defunct, I’m going to assume that was settled in some way. Regardless, this case was about Hooked’s claims against Apple, not the CTO.

Second, from reading some more of the filings, there appears to be legitimate disputes about whether or what kind of material information the CTO had on his personal laptop. Apple cooperated and did a forensics data retrieval of the CTOs laptop (and spent $92,000 to do so from a vendor and then charged the plaintiff for that, which the appellate court admitted was probably too high but was also out of scope for them to judge) and then the lawyers stopped sifting through that data when it came across some communications that were protected by attorney-client privilege. Apple wouldn’t globally waive privilege in the case, but said it would do it on a document by document basis, but the lawyer’s for Hooked claimed it didn’t want access to anything privileged. The appellate court ruled that there was no proof or argument that had the lower court ruled another way regarding some of the access to those privileged materials (that the plaintiff said it didn’t want anyway), that the decision would have been any different.

That’s pretty different from the Waymo situation, where the evidence suggested that significant effort was taken to backup proprietary data surreptitiously.

The other thing is that as far as I can gather, the laptop of the CTO was always his personal laptop. It didn’t belong to the company and there wasn’t any MDM solution or other provisions to protect/separate his personal data from the business data. Now, obviously this is incredibly common in startups, but it does make the burden or proving that proprietary data was “stolen,” let alone taken and used at Apple, much higher.

Levandowski’s high pay at Google might also change things because there might have been much more explicit provisions in his employment contract. I just don’t know. There’s also the whole thing about how he lied to his lawyers, wouldn’t cooperate, and that Uber fired him.

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