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Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

arstechnica.com

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Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#231

Post by [deleted] »

kortilla wrote: post #181
manojlds wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mercedes this year has a steering wheel that moves vertically to change the angle of the front wheels. RedBull, Ferrari and Mercedes have different philosophies in their aero, car length, front wing etc. The cars are far from cookie cutter, and 2022 regs already show different ways people could design the car. That's before we see how the teams do it. It's exciting times ahead for F1 in the shirt term. The 2026 engin…

Oh wow, changing the angle of the front wheels. It’s gripping innovation like that which really catches the imagination and speaks to the disruptive innovation at play here. Perhaps next year we’ll see a slightly lighter shade of black in the paint if they go really wild.

[deleted]

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#232

Post by imtringued »

sumanthvepa wrote: post #78

F1's problem is that it is a technological marvel that is simultaneously obsolete. Like the XB-71 Valkyrie project of the US AirForce, the technology powering modern F1 hybrid power trains is just outstandingly brilliant. However, just like the XB-71 was made obsolete by the advent of ICBMs, the hybrid power train's future for road cars has been overtaken by the advent of Tesla and battery electric vehicles. The meta…

The largest problem is that it's incredibly easy to build a car faster than any human can reasonably control. This has lead to so many accidents and rule changes that F1 racing is a wholly artificial sport in terms of engineering.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#233

Post by notnap »

Gene_Parmesan wrote: post #227
elcomet wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why it would kill the sport, could you explain?

Expenses. Currently the top spenders are Ferrari and Mercedes. Both spend somewhere around $330 million (US) per year (and Mercedes has spent a total of $1.4 billion over the course of these current engine regs developing their car -- that's just development, not race expenses.). This is a beyond insane figure, but it's worth it to them for the marketing. Meanwhile smaller teams -- the teams you need to actually fill…

Please go and check this Ferrari season. You are in for a s🅱️in

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#234

Post by nindalf »

perfunctory wrote: post #218

> By my count, this is the fifth time that the Japanese automaker has quit F1 Makes you wonder how serious one should take this announcement. > our current goal of "electrifying two-thirds of our global automobile unit sales in 2030" Sounds ambitious, but we know by now that nobody - no company, no government - has ever met any of their climate pledges.

They’re not electrifying their fleet by 2030 because they want to make the world a better place through technology. They’re doing it because in 2035 they lose access to the world’s 4th largest economy - California. No manufacturer can take that kind of hit. All manufacturers see the writing on the wall - they need to invest in EVs or perish. In 10 years if it looks like a majority of manufacturers are successfully making the transition, every jurisdiction will enact a rule similar to California’s. The remaining laggards will be dearly departed.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#235

Post by yread »

JshWright wrote: post #5
sitkack wrote: post #3

That is awesome! Honda, you rock.

They also just announced that will continue to be an IndyCar supplier for a long while. F1 power units (including the hybrid components) are more efficient than the Indy counterparts. This isn't _actually_ about carbon-free anything... It's about F1 being expensive.

The fuel consumption of the engines is 0.7% of the carbon footprint of F1 races (250k tons of CO2). Just by the virtue of not having to travel around the world all the time Indy has a much lower carbon footprint

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/50382898#:~:text=It calculated the sport's total,Factories and facilities 19.3%25

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#236

Post by taffronaut »

TylerE wrote: post #196
jocker12 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"but it has the opposite effect." - so you think the reduction of engine/power units usage from 2 to 3 per race to 3 per season had an opposite cost effect? Or limitation of tire sets that could be used over a race weekend had an opposite cost effect? Or do you want to remove the regulations and have only 4 or 6 cars (Mercedes, Ferrari and possible McLaren) racing for 21 races instead of 20 to 22 cars for the same am…

In a way, yes. Racing slicks are cheap in comparison to the kind of budgets we’re talking about here - and that cost per unit would go down if they were making and using more. Engineering out the last infinitesimal bit of rain out of something is expensive. F1 was much more interesting when things like the Tyrell P34 were allowed to exist

Absolutely agree. My first job out of college was working for a company that was a minor sponsor of the Tyrell P34. We briefly had one of the cars in reception.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#237

Post by wastedhours »

jimbokun wrote: post #114
CWuestefeld wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anybody in tech, and especially information technology, should be able to find something fascinating in F1. Winning an F1 race requires a huge amount of data processing, both for the operation of the race car itself, as well as for the simulations of race strategy in realtime. The teams bring enormous amounts of equipment to each race. Obviously a lot of that equipment is wrenches, screwdrivers, and related machinery…

Any good books on F1 technology, data processing or otherwise?

Not books, but Racecar Engineering magazine [0] is a fantastic source, as is Craig Scarborough [1] for little nuggets of current developments.

[0] https://www.racecar-engineering.com/ [1] https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#238

Post by wastedhours »

DC-3 wrote: post #189
eVoLInTHRo wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your mind, how many years is a few years? I watch Formula E, but it's hard to imagine it becoming the pinnacle of motorsport anytime soon. Formula E's definitely made progress: e.g. they no longer have to run two separate cars just to finish the race, and they are decently quick. But they're still pretty far away in other aspects: 45 minute race, on temporary circuits purposefully designed with many tight turns to…

Formula E has also made the conscious decision not to pursue open chassis and aero regulations - good for keeping the costs down, but it makes it harder to take it seriously as a potential future 'pinnacle' series.

That being said, the attraction to manufacturers coming into FE is large and it'll only take a few more generations before I'm sure there'll be differentiation in some parts.

I'm bullish on FE, especially when they can run on "proper" circuits at a consistently decent pace (that being said, smaller city-centre tracks might very well be the future of the sport in any case).

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#239

Post by wastedhours »

ImprovedSilence wrote: post #163
GhostVII wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there problem is that it's just boring to watch because they are so fast - it is extremely hard to pass without hacks like DRS, which makes F1 races really boring to watch. And I'm sure most fans would much rather switch back to the v10 engines even though they are more "obsolete", a conventional powertrain doesn't make them any more boring to watch (it actually makes them more exciting imo). And if battery t…

I attended an F1 race in the V10 era. And my god, the noise! It's like the sky was being torn to shreds. The sensory experience is/was definitely a huge part of being a live spectator. I've been to a few other kinds of races, and nothing ever really came close to that. Just the raw power/pure violence of those cars coming out of a turn with that ear splitting shriek is just phenomenal. That being said, the booz fuele…

I once walked the footbridge over the hillclimb at Goodwood during the Festival of Speed as a V10 F1 car went underneath. Was something else entirely.

Seeing the musical demos the Renault team used to do was always interesting too - if you haven't heard an F1 car play God Save The Queen [0] it's a great watch (and a reminder about how controllable they are).

[0] https://youtu.be/XRXwWbo_mX0?t=55

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#240

Post by notnap »

Buttons840 wrote: post #169
ImprovedSilence wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I attended an F1 race in the V10 era. And my god, the noise! It's like the sky was being torn to shreds. The sensory experience is/was definitely a huge part of being a live spectator. I've been to a few other kinds of races, and nothing ever really came close to that. Just the raw power/pure violence of those cars coming out of a turn with that ear splitting shriek is just phenomenal. That being said, the booz fuele…

Reminds me of seeing a top dragster. The engine "noise" visibly blurred my vision because it was physically vibrating my head.

“Thunder Valley” experience at Sonoma (is the first row experience next to beginning of the launch strip) is a worthy upgrade
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