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Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

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Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#271

Post by sandGorgon »

kamaal wrote: post #261
sandGorgon wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that is a very scary FUD perspective you have and it is not based in reality. Non competes have been tested in indian courts and thrown out. This is fairly established and not a situation that is common practice. the other things you talk about are not standard practice and things that may happen anywhere

>>Non competes have been tested in indian courts and thrown out. Are you from India? People here are afraid to approach the police station even for small issues, let alone take on billion dollar firms and fight expensive cases for years. Even winning means losing in a context like this. People even settle traffic violation tickets with bribes, and you are talking about taking on billion dollar companies. Also no one…

this is a civil case. this is not criminal. there is no police.

the onus is on the company to go to court and do this. And this gets rejected. because indian courts have rejected non-competes as a matter of policy.

I would suggest you recheck the ground reality. And yes i do run a company in India.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#272

Post by aptwebapps »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #147
Animats wrote: post #2

"That evidence does suggest the engineers drew on knowledge and skills they gained from Hooked to develop a product for their new employer––but California’s policy favoring free mobility for employees specifically allows that. (See Whyte v. Schlage Lock Co. (2002) 101Cal.App.4th 1443, 1464 [rejecting the “inevitable disclosure” doctrine, under which a claim for trade secret misappropriation is stated if an employee’s…

Exactly correct. I tried to explain this to a public official from an east cost town who was flying back from the Bay Area trying to "learn the secrets" of creating an innovation hub. When I explained this situation (non-competes are illegal, stuff you do at home is yours) to him he literally said "That's crazy! Why would anyone hire anyone if they knew they could walk out the door to a competitor, or even to start a…

The funny thing about that it is a perfectly understandable perspective from someone bent on wooing companies to come to his town (i.e. focused on the immediate needs and demands of his perceived clientele), but at the same time completely misses the big picture.

I guess it would be an easy trap to fall into, but you would hope that someone going to the trouble of trying to learn about how another place did things would be a little more receptive to unexpected things.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#273

Post by cgb223 »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #147
Animats wrote: post #2

"That evidence does suggest the engineers drew on knowledge and skills they gained from Hooked to develop a product for their new employer––but California’s policy favoring free mobility for employees specifically allows that. (See Whyte v. Schlage Lock Co. (2002) 101Cal.App.4th 1443, 1464 [rejecting the “inevitable disclosure” doctrine, under which a claim for trade secret misappropriation is stated if an employee’s…

Exactly correct. I tried to explain this to a public official from an east cost town who was flying back from the Bay Area trying to "learn the secrets" of creating an innovation hub. When I explained this situation (non-competes are illegal, stuff you do at home is yours) to him he literally said "That's crazy! Why would anyone hire anyone if they knew they could walk out the door to a competitor, or even to start a…

> non-competes are illegal, stuff you do at home is yours

For “stuff you do at home” is there any limit to that?

Like if I’m on my own time and my own computer/internet, and I worked at say, a search engine company, and I made my own search engine in my free time (a huge project, but we’re talking in hypotheticals here)

Would my current employer in this scenario be able to sue me?

What if it’s “my own time” during the day, but I’m working from home and I switch from my company’s work to my own for 20 minutes before going back to my employers?

What if the project is only tangentially related?

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#274

Post by mschuster91 »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #270
thaumasiotes wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you’re not going to act on an author’s central point, don’t try do any of the other parts (they’ll probably actually be harmful). If you’re not going to copy the central parts of something successful, don’t bother copying the other stuff. > The recipe for success of Silicon Valley is pretty straightforward. It has great colleges, great weather, and weak noncompetes. There are a couple of interesting things about…

Southern France has wonderful weather and the Mediterranean Sea. The EU should start a special economic zone for startups there (a split of later taxes going into the EU budget).

On the other hand it's France, and the French are notorious for not wanting to speak English, while at the same time not many people from Europe speak French. Hard to build a truly European zone that way.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#275

Post by aden1ne »

stickfigure wrote: post #189
thaumasiotes wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you’re not going to act on an author’s central point, don’t try do any of the other parts (they’ll probably actually be harmful). If you’re not going to copy the central parts of something successful, don’t bother copying the other stuff. > The recipe for success of Silicon Valley is pretty straightforward. It has great colleges, great weather, and weak noncompetes. There are a couple of interesting things about…

There are lots of places with a Mediterranean climate.

A Mediterranean climate is actually pretty rare in the world. The only large areas with a Mediterranean climate are the actual Mediterranean, the US West Coast, and some parts of Australia. Apart from that there are only a few scattered spots with a Mediterranean climate.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/Mediterr...

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#276

Post by mschuster91 »

donor20 wrote: post #50
Animats wrote: post #2

"That evidence does suggest the engineers drew on knowledge and skills they gained from Hooked to develop a product for their new employer––but California’s policy favoring free mobility for employees specifically allows that. (See Whyte v. Schlage Lock Co. (2002) 101Cal.App.4th 1443, 1464 [rejecting the “inevitable disclosure” doctrine, under which a claim for trade secret misappropriation is stated if an employee’s…

Labor mobility is really low in Europe. In france you can be tied up in litigation (tribunel through appeals) for 10 years easily on an employment termination (my info is from 2016 time frame so may be dated). There is no such thing as at-will employment. Also, noncompete's are weird. If someone is receiving full pay on gardening leave they can work for someone else. If you instead have them work till end of notice p…

> There is no such thing as at-will employment.

And that is a good thing.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#277

Post by nl »

cgb223 wrote: post #273
ChuckMcM wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly correct. I tried to explain this to a public official from an east cost town who was flying back from the Bay Area trying to "learn the secrets" of creating an innovation hub. When I explained this situation (non-competes are illegal, stuff you do at home is yours) to him he literally said "That's crazy! Why would anyone hire anyone if they knew they could walk out the door to a competitor, or even to start a…

> non-competes are illegal, stuff you do at home is yours For “stuff you do at home” is there any limit to that? Like if I’m on my own time and my own computer/internet, and I worked at say, a search engine company, and I made my own search engine in my free time (a huge project, but we’re talking in hypotheticals here) Would my current employer in this scenario be able to sue me? What if it’s “my own time” during th…

Trade secrets are a thing, and enforceable in California.

> Would my current employer in this scenario be able to sue me?

They can always sue you even if it unlikely they would win.

> What if it’s “my own time” during the day, but I’m working from home and I switch from my company’s work to my own for 20 minutes before going back to my employers?

> What if the project is only tangentially related?

You should speak to a lawyer. It will depend on the details and your exact employment contract.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#278

Post by danielscrubs »

barry-cotter wrote: post #124
ytwySXpMbS wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure where you’re getting your numbers from. Assuming by “poorer” you mean nominal GDP, Germany would be the richest state in the US.

My numbers were out of date. Germany has a higher GDP per capita than South Carolina, Alabama, Idaho, West Virginia, Arkansas and Mississippi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Germany

Interesting. Why does Washington DC have almost triple the gdp/capita then California? What do they do that California don’t?

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#279

Post by filmgirlcw »

chmod600 wrote: post #240
Animats wrote: post #2

"That evidence does suggest the engineers drew on knowledge and skills they gained from Hooked to develop a product for their new employer––but California’s policy favoring free mobility for employees specifically allows that. (See Whyte v. Schlage Lock Co. (2002) 101Cal.App.4th 1443, 1464 [rejecting the “inevitable disclosure” doctrine, under which a claim for trade secret misappropriation is stated if an employee’s…

Really naive question: I can see why an individual company would include non-compete clauses if legally allowed to. But who actually benefits from non-compete clauses being allowed? Aren't companies hurt more with hiring difficulties and unmotivated employees sticking around than whatever benefit they get avoiding raises? Are there really a bunch of managers thinking "I want an engineering team that is stuck here and…

It’s not about the employees being stuck there. The employee can quit for a new job and then just gets sued before they can start work. So then the employee either has to wait out the non-compete period (sometimes these are paid out), losing valuable work time, or they have to get a job in a demonstrably different sector/area, where skill transfer may not be as advantageous.

You’re right that this does create a toxic, unmotivated workforce. That said, it can also instill fear in employees from looking for other positions and helps keep wages depressed, since people can’t be persuaded to leave for competitors with higher salaries.

It’s about control.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#280

Post by Meph504 »

cgb223 wrote: post #273
ChuckMcM wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly correct. I tried to explain this to a public official from an east cost town who was flying back from the Bay Area trying to "learn the secrets" of creating an innovation hub. When I explained this situation (non-competes are illegal, stuff you do at home is yours) to him he literally said "That's crazy! Why would anyone hire anyone if they knew they could walk out the door to a competitor, or even to start a…

> non-competes are illegal, stuff you do at home is yours For “stuff you do at home” is there any limit to that? Like if I’m on my own time and my own computer/internet, and I worked at say, a search engine company, and I made my own search engine in my free time (a huge project, but we’re talking in hypotheticals here) Would my current employer in this scenario be able to sue me? What if it’s “my own time” during th…

Short answer what does your employment contract say?

I live in the southern U.S. Non compete clause are 100% enforceable here, and have a ton of case law backing them. I generally won't take a job if it requires me signing it.

I have more than 20 years of experience, and I personally feel I am far more likely to bring knowledge to them rather than then providing it to me.

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