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Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

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Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#181

Post by thaumasiotes »

travisjungroth wrote: post #169
ChuckMcM wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly correct. I tried to explain this to a public official from an east cost town who was flying back from the Bay Area trying to "learn the secrets" of creating an innovation hub. When I explained this situation (non-competes are illegal, stuff you do at home is yours) to him he literally said "That's crazy! Why would anyone hire anyone if they knew they could walk out the door to a competitor, or even to start a…

Your comment reminds me of this tweet: https://mobile.twitter.com/zackkanter/status/130493861651941... The cognitive dissonance humans are capable of is amazing. To actually say “We would never allow that in our town.” in the pejorative while flying back from a trip specifically meant to learn how to be like another town . If you’re not going to act on an author’s central point, don’t try to do any of the other parts…

> If you’re not going to act on an author’s central point, don’t try do any of the other parts (they’ll probably actually be harmful). If you’re not going to copy the central parts of something successful, don’t bother copying the other stuff.

> The recipe for success of Silicon Valley is pretty straightforward. It has great colleges, great weather, and weak noncompetes.

There are a couple of interesting things about these comments.

#1, nobody knows which parts of an ensemble of practices are the central parts. It's quite true that, because of this problem, people just try to copy as much as they can.

But then we lead into #2, your comments on the recipe for success. Among your central points, literally placed in the center, is "great weather". That can't be copied. You have the weather you have. What should the other 99.999% of the world do? Is there even a point in trying?

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#182

Post by theamk »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #127
brianwawok wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can no one but the US pay developers well? The GDP per cap is there in many countries... but for some reason developers are only key employees in the US?

Or are developers paid a disproportionate wage in comparison to other jobs? Why should a software developer get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, while those who weren't lucky enough to be born with the required intelligence (despite what coding bootcamps say, not everyone is cut out to write code) are doomed to work a low-wage job for their entire life? It's the height of privilege. And if you subscribe…

Because a good team of software engineers can bring a lot of value. They can write a software that saves company millions of dollars. They can can make a product which will bring millions of dollars of profit. And for all that, their labor and equipment expenses will be a fraction of that amount.

There are very few professions with profit/cost ratio this high. Writers and media creator come to mind. Definitely not electricians or builders.

(Of course not every software engineer is like this. But there are plenty of $60K software jobs in US too, nit everyone gets six digits)

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#183

Post by adrianN »

numair wrote: post #136
toomanybeersies wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or are developers paid a disproportionate wage in comparison to other jobs? Why should a software developer get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, while those who weren't lucky enough to be born with the required intelligence (despite what coding bootcamps say, not everyone is cut out to write code) are doomed to work a low-wage job for their entire life? It's the height of privilege. And if you subscribe…

Your post is a literal summary of why the attitude and performance of software engineers in other countries is so utterly subpar. Having spent a lot of time in Australia, I found the work ethic and culture of the office-bound workers there to be completely unacceptable by American standards. You wouldn’t understand American standards because you don’t understand the difference in work intensity and performance. There…

All my colleagues are good workers and none of them have the intention to move to California. In fact, a good chunk moved out of California.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#184

Post by donor20 »

Lost in the comments a bit is that Apple actually offered Hooked 4.5 MILLION to hire these folks in the acqui-hire, and the companied DECLINED saying they had other prospects (which turned out to be false - they were running out of money). The CTO begged for them to go through with the aqui-hire.

If the employees don't have faith in your big plans, and you turn down 4.5 million to make the transition smooth, is it really illegal for the employees to go work for someone else?

Hooked had these folks as at will employees and could fire them with 1 hr notice, and then is pissed they ended up going to work for Apple. Come ON! If you wanted them long term sign them to a long term contract.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#185

Post by theamk »

Jorge1o1 wrote: post #145
toomanybeersies wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or are developers paid a disproportionate wage in comparison to other jobs? Why should a software developer get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, while those who weren't lucky enough to be born with the required intelligence (despite what coding bootcamps say, not everyone is cut out to write code) are doomed to work a low-wage job for their entire life? It's the height of privilege. And if you subscribe…

The wage paid to programmers is a function of supply and demand just like everything else in the market. Investment bankers and programmers earn more than your typical American because the supply of bankers and top-level programmers is much tighter. Goldman Sachs and KKR hire from Wharton or HBS, and Google hires grads from CMU or Stanford. Whether they should or shouldn’t restrict their hiring practices is another m…

Google is a pretty bad example, they are well known for not caring where did you study. As long as you pass their (hellish) interview, they will take you.

And bootcamps are not going to help you with that.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#186

Post by mtnGoat »

donor20 wrote: post #184

Lost in the comments a bit is that Apple actually offered Hooked 4.5 MILLION to hire these folks in the acqui-hire, and the companied DECLINED saying they had other prospects (which turned out to be false - they were running out of money). The CTO begged for them to go through with the aqui-hire. If the employees don't have faith in your big plans, and you turn down 4.5 million to make the transition smooth, is it re…

I imagine most devs would do the same in the same position too... Stay on possibly sinking ship, or move to a very well paying FANG. Choice isn't hard.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#187

Post by [deleted] »

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #173
throwqrm wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huge equity stakes. Huge. Not "align incentives" level stakes. "Google's chef has $26 million" stakes.

How do you express that as a percentage in equity? Also, it really seems pointless, because as they take on more funding guess whose “huge stake” gets diluted.

[deleted]

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#188

Post by sandGorgon »

Animats wrote: post #2

"That evidence does suggest the engineers drew on knowledge and skills they gained from Hooked to develop a product for their new employer––but California’s policy favoring free mobility for employees specifically allows that. (See Whyte v. Schlage Lock Co. (2002) 101Cal.App.4th 1443, 1464 [rejecting the “inevitable disclosure” doctrine, under which a claim for trade secret misappropriation is stated if an employee’s…

Indian labor laws across the whole country operate like this.

Non-competes are useless..

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#189

Post by stickfigure »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #181
travisjungroth wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment reminds me of this tweet: https://mobile.twitter.com/zackkanter/status/130493861651941... The cognitive dissonance humans are capable of is amazing. To actually say “We would never allow that in our town.” in the pejorative while flying back from a trip specifically meant to learn how to be like another town . If you’re not going to act on an author’s central point, don’t try to do any of the other parts…

> If you’re not going to act on an author’s central point, don’t try do any of the other parts (they’ll probably actually be harmful). If you’re not going to copy the central parts of something successful, don’t bother copying the other stuff. > The recipe for success of Silicon Valley is pretty straightforward. It has great colleges, great weather, and weak noncompetes. There are a couple of interesting things about…

There are lots of places with a Mediterranean climate.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#190

Post by avereveard »

travisjungroth wrote: post #169
ChuckMcM wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly correct. I tried to explain this to a public official from an east cost town who was flying back from the Bay Area trying to "learn the secrets" of creating an innovation hub. When I explained this situation (non-competes are illegal, stuff you do at home is yours) to him he literally said "That's crazy! Why would anyone hire anyone if they knew they could walk out the door to a competitor, or even to start a…

Your comment reminds me of this tweet: https://mobile.twitter.com/zackkanter/status/130493861651941... The cognitive dissonance humans are capable of is amazing. To actually say “We would never allow that in our town.” in the pejorative while flying back from a trip specifically meant to learn how to be like another town . If you’re not going to act on an author’s central point, don’t try to do any of the other parts…

Italy literally invented universities, gets comparable climate and unpaid non competes are not enforceable.

no silicon valley equivalent in sight tho

so I strongly suspect the whole thread so far it's projection and wishful thinking.

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