Earlier quoted context omitted.
Labor mobility is really low in Europe. In france you can be tied up in litigation (tribunel through appeals) for 10 years easily on an employment termination (my info is from 2016 time frame so may be dated). There is no such thing as at-will employment. Also, noncompete's are weird. If someone is receiving full pay on gardening leave they can work for someone else. If you instead have them work till end of notice p…
France != Europe. This sort of thing doesn't exist in the UK, for example. As for firing people, perhaps France, but not UK. Most jobs have a 3-6 month probation period, with a week's notice either way, and in the first 2 years you can fire anyone for no reason (apart from reasons of race, gender, pregnancy, etc.). After that, by which point it's obvious they can do the job, generally you have to give a progression o…
Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]
161–170 of 442 posts
Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]
#162No wonder they left. If they were up for sale anyway, its no surprise that they cut all loyalties loose – that's exactly what the company did. And career liquidity plays heavily in the favor of engineers right now.
Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]
#163"That evidence does suggest the engineers drew on knowledge and skills they gained from Hooked to develop a product for their new employer––but California’s policy favoring free mobility for employees specifically allows that. (See Whyte v. Schlage Lock Co. (2002) 101Cal.App.4th 1443, 1464 [rejecting the “inevitable disclosure” doctrine, under which a claim for trade secret misappropriation is stated if an employee’s…
Exactly correct. I tried to explain this to a public official from an east cost town who was flying back from the Bay Area trying to "learn the secrets" of creating an innovation hub. When I explained this situation (non-competes are illegal, stuff you do at home is yours) to him he literally said "That's crazy! Why would anyone hire anyone if they knew they could walk out the door to a competitor, or even to start a…
Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]
#164"That evidence does suggest the engineers drew on knowledge and skills they gained from Hooked to develop a product for their new employer––but California’s policy favoring free mobility for employees specifically allows that. (See Whyte v. Schlage Lock Co. (2002) 101Cal.App.4th 1443, 1464 [rejecting the “inevitable disclosure” doctrine, under which a claim for trade secret misappropriation is stated if an employee’s…
Exactly correct. I tried to explain this to a public official from an east cost town who was flying back from the Bay Area trying to "learn the secrets" of creating an innovation hub. When I explained this situation (non-competes are illegal, stuff you do at home is yours) to him he literally said "That's crazy! Why would anyone hire anyone if they knew they could walk out the door to a competitor, or even to start a…
While you could rent GPU's in 2015 from AWS the competition could not deliver a GPU without calling it Alpha until the end of 2018.
Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]
#165----------
Hooked points to evidence showing its former employees (in particular its CTO) retained Hooked technical information, accessed it while in Apple’s employ, and gave misleading statements about how much of it they had retained. But showing that the employees had the information is not sufficient to establish Apple improperly acquired or used it...
Hooked relies on circumstantial evidence that in its view generates an inference of trade secret use sufficient to create a triable issue of fact as to that element: its former employees were assigned to tasks at Apple similar to the work they did at Hooked and within weeks one of them produced a detailed plan for a recommendations system much like Hooked’s version. Further, an expert opined that the source code for Apple’s recommendations system was similar to the source code for Hooked’s. That evidence does suggest the engineers drew on knowledge and skills they gained from Hooked to develop a product for their new employer – but California’s policy favoring free mobility for employees specifically allows that. [pp. 6-7 of the court document linked above]
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Waymo points to evidence showing its former employees (in particular its lead engineer) retained Waymo technical information, accessed it while in Uber’s employ, and gave misleading statements about how much of it they had retained. But showing that the employees had the information is not sufficient to establish Uber improperly acquired or used it...
Waymo relies on circumstantial evidence that in its view generates an inference of trade secret use sufficient to create a triable issue of fact as to that element: its former employees were assigned to tasks at Uber similar to the work they did at Waymo and within months one of them produced a detailed plan for a LIDAR system much like Waymo’s version. Further, an expert opined that the schematic for Uber’s LIDAR system was similar to the schematic for Waymo’s. That evidence does suggest the engineers drew on knowledge and skills they gained from Waymo to develop a product for their new employer – but California’s policy favoring free mobility for employees specifically allows that. [Anthony Levandowski's recurring dreams]
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Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
France != Europe. This sort of thing doesn't exist in the UK, for example. As for firing people, perhaps France, but not UK. Most jobs have a 3-6 month probation period, with a week's notice either way, and in the first 2 years you can fire anyone for no reason (apart from reasons of race, gender, pregnancy, etc.). After that, by which point it's obvious they can do the job, generally you have to give a progression o…
I honestly think something like this makes a lot more sense. First year or so, you're in a probationary period. Unemployment benefits will kick in, but you and the company are still feeling each other out. After that, you get certain protections, whereby firing you becomes a more lengthy (3-6 month) process with specific regulatory milestones. Speaking from a management perspective, if I have had an employee that has…
In the US you can pivot your startup if something isn't working, roll off 20% of your staff and you don't have to talk to a govt tribunal or go through appeals.
You can make your own management calls on who you want to work with - you don't have to justify things or provide the verbal -> written -> tribunal -> appeal cycles process.
And founders are notoriously bad managers - while they should perhaps spend the time to do PIP's and training plans and being better managers, most of them are very focused on outcomes - so startups can be a very self managed area.
Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just FYI that’s not what right to work is. You’re talking about at will employment. Right to work means they can’t make you join the union.
Thanks. I mean the laws and precedent that made it clear my non compete is unenforceable based on the idea that I have a right to... work. Oh hey and there’s the name right there!
> Oh hey and there’s the name right there!
I wish non-competes being unenforceable had a pithy associated phrase, but it doesn't.
There are nuances to non-competes that sometimes get glossed over, such as non-solicitation of customers and co-workers. I believe those types of clauses are enforceable in CA.
Oddly enough, the union neutering that is encoded as "right to work" is usually cited as a factor that makes a state more "business friendly", and so are enforceable non-competes.
Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
Labor mobility is really low in Europe. In france you can be tied up in litigation (tribunel through appeals) for 10 years easily on an employment termination (my info is from 2016 time frame so may be dated). There is no such thing as at-will employment. Also, noncompete's are weird. If someone is receiving full pay on gardening leave they can work for someone else. If you instead have them work till end of notice p…
>Labor mobility is really low in Europe Like the other comment mentioned, this is a very France-centric description - in the Netherlands, for example, you can't block workers from leaving their company in this way.
"This clause prevents them from working for your competitor or from starting a similar enterprise after resigning. A non-solicitation clause forbids your employee to contact your clients after resigning."
https://business.gov.nl/regulation/non-compete-clause/
In the US, lots of folks have famously started up their own ideas if they are frustrated with a big corp. In California that can't be blocked.
Is there something I don't know about NL law (very possible!).
Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]
#169"That evidence does suggest the engineers drew on knowledge and skills they gained from Hooked to develop a product for their new employer––but California’s policy favoring free mobility for employees specifically allows that. (See Whyte v. Schlage Lock Co. (2002) 101Cal.App.4th 1443, 1464 [rejecting the “inevitable disclosure” doctrine, under which a claim for trade secret misappropriation is stated if an employee’s…
Exactly correct. I tried to explain this to a public official from an east cost town who was flying back from the Bay Area trying to "learn the secrets" of creating an innovation hub. When I explained this situation (non-competes are illegal, stuff you do at home is yours) to him he literally said "That's crazy! Why would anyone hire anyone if they knew they could walk out the door to a competitor, or even to start a…
The cognitive dissonance humans are capable of is amazing. To actually say “We would never allow that in our town.” in the pejorative while flying back from a trip specifically meant to learn how to be like another town.
If you’re not going to act on an author’s central point, don’t try to do any of the other parts (they’ll probably actually be harmful). If you’re not going to copy the central parts of something successful, don’t bother copying the other stuff.
The recipe for success of Silicon Valley is pretty straightforward. It has great colleges, great weather, and weak noncompetes. So people go there to start companies. And now it has a compounding cycle of attracting capital, founders and talent (recent events aside).
But a government employee from Boston can’t say that, cause they can’t do shit about it. It’s not like they’ll fix the weather or the noncompetes (too many entrenched medtech companies to change that now).
So they’ll say “they have accelerators!” and open a city sponsored accelerator and maybe some successful company will pop out in the next ten years.
Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
Labor mobility is really low in Europe. In france you can be tied up in litigation (tribunel through appeals) for 10 years easily on an employment termination (my info is from 2016 time frame so may be dated). There is no such thing as at-will employment. Also, noncompete's are weird. If someone is receiving full pay on gardening leave they can work for someone else. If you instead have them work till end of notice p…
Another way to describe "low labour mobility" is "high job stability". It's easy to sit in an ivory tower on a $200k+ silicon valley salary, with a healthy job market if you get the sack, and bemoan the fact that workers have rights and can't be fired because their employer feels like it.
Entry level wages are perhaps $190K (right out of college / entry level) at google and others. There is definitely a job for you at $60K