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BitCoin Under Fire

marginalrevolution.com

11–20 of 32 posts

Re: BitCoin Under Fire

#11
Okay, if I'm understanding how transactions work, all transactions are public, as they need to be validated by the P2P network.

This seems to be a significant disadvantage, to say dollars, where no record of a transaction exists.

Am I missing something (that's what I'm assuming)? Or is having a list of all transactions viewed as a strength?

Re: BitCoin Under Fire

#12
Bitcoins are attractive because they are intrinsically stable. Diamonds will become worthless if we find a way to make them cheaply, the Picasso may turn out to be a fake, and the Cayman islands might suddenly decide to print a few trillion dollars. All of which means your net worth is subject to the availability, accuracy, and governmental decisions of whatever your storage medium is.

Bitcoin doesn't have this vulnerability, unless the majority decides it does. There cannot be rapid inflation due to "printing" bitcoins, unless the majority decides to allow it. The system cannot declare bankruptcy, because it's not backed by anything which can determine its intrinsic value.

It's a foreign currency that no single anything controls. It can wax and wane in value compared to other currencies, as any value-exchange system can, but if it becomes "the" currency, it'll be the first stable, totally-trustable currency ever, because transactions and amounts cannot be faked. Assuming quantum computers can't be made cheap enough to allow attacking the system to be valuable, as it relies on public key cryptography and difficult hashing functions (not sure how quantum computing effects hashing functions).

Re: BitCoin Under Fire

#13
post #9

It's not the best-written criticism (incidentally, why was the title changed for submission?) but it has a point. Right now, Bitcoins ain't worth jack-shit as a currency in any denomination larger than "a few". If I have a hundred thousand dollars, I can buy a Porsche. If I have a hundred thousand bitcoins, I can't buy anything, because I doubt I'll find a buyer for a hundred thousand bitcoins. I'd be interested to k…

About 25k BTC trade daily on MtGox, and that is thought to represent roughly 1/3 of USD-BTC FX transactions daily.

Keep in mind thats BTC-USD trades, not "notional value spent".

Apparent largest transaction was 400k bitcoins: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1346.0

It would be difficult to transact 100k BTC with one counterparty, but could be reasonably accomplished in a few days via electronic exchanges (mtgox).

Re: BitCoin Under Fire

#14
post #8

Cohen's GMU colleague Russ Roberts interviewed BitCoin's Andresen a few weeks back. Roberts, normally hyper-critical, was ecstatic over it. A great podcast: http://goo.gl/mNcQW

Gavin didn't do a very good job explaining things in that one, unfortunately. I recently found the Omega Tau podcast covering Bitcoin, and he does much, much better: http://omegataupodcast.net/2011/03/59-bitcoin-a-digital-dece...

Re: BitCoin Under Fire

#15
post #14
post #8

Cohen's GMU colleague Russ Roberts interviewed BitCoin's Andresen a few weeks back. Roberts, normally hyper-critical, was ecstatic over it. A great podcast: http://goo.gl/mNcQW

Gavin didn't do a very good job explaining things in that one, unfortunately. I recently found the Omega Tau podcast covering Bitcoin, and he does much, much better: http://omegataupodcast.net/2011/03/59-bitcoin-a-digital-dece...

Excellent. Agreed, he seemed to want to cater to Roberts' economics strengths, though if I recall, Roberts was trying to tease out some of the technical issues.

Re: BitCoin Under Fire

#16

Can someone explain the velocity of money argument to me? The blog post seems to be: 1. If btc are liquid, everyone will want to move btc wealth out to some other store of wealth and btc will fail. 2. If btc are illiquid, then it fails by definition. Currently btc are at this stage. Here's why I don't get it: 1. If they ARE liquid and its easy to convert btc value to other value, why would everyone want to move value…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equation_of_exchange

Re: BitCoin Under Fire

#17
post #16

Can someone explain the velocity of money argument to me? The blog post seems to be: 1. If btc are liquid, everyone will want to move btc wealth out to some other store of wealth and btc will fail. 2. If btc are illiquid, then it fails by definition. Currently btc are at this stage. Here's why I don't get it: 1. If they ARE liquid and its easy to convert btc value to other value, why would everyone want to move value…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equation_of_exchange

sorry, I wasn't clear. I wasn't asking WHAT velocity of money is, I was asking someone to explain the author's velocity of money argument. i.e. transfering wealth out of btc accelerates the velocity.

q, m, v, and p remain relatively constant in that transaction unless the liquidity event causes a persistent decrease in the price level (no evidence that the current BTC market could support it, but also c.f. above my comments about immature markets and liquidity).

Re: BitCoin Under Fire

#18
post #5
post #2

I don't understand what he is saying. Aren't dollars just worthless pieces of paper? They are only worth something because people accept them as payment. Obviously at the moment investing in BitCoins is rather speculative, but so is investing in other currencies (and dollars don't have the best reputation anymore, either). If he converts everything into dollars and dollars are being devalued, he loses. Is he saying t…

Aren't dollars just worthless pieces of paper? Apparently not. Try spending dollars in a store (both in the U.S. and many places besides) and see if it works. They are only worth something because people accept them as payment. Including the U.S. government as payment for debt. If the most powerful government in the world says dollars have value, it's not so easy to lose all of that value, even without it being a bac…

"Including the U.S. government as payment for debt."

So what exactly can I get from the US government in exchange for dollars? (I am not a US citizen).

Re: BitCoin Under Fire

#19
post #2

I don't understand what he is saying. Aren't dollars just worthless pieces of paper? They are only worth something because people accept them as payment. Obviously at the moment investing in BitCoins is rather speculative, but so is investing in other currencies (and dollars don't have the best reputation anymore, either). If he converts everything into dollars and dollars are being devalued, he loses. Is he saying t…

Aren't dollars just worthless pieces of paper? They are only worth something because people accept them as payment. Some of those people are the IRS, who will throw you in prison if you don't turn over a sufficient quantity of said paper. That guarantees a minimum level of demand for dollars.

I suppose they only charge you taxes if you actually earn dollars, so if you wouldn't earn anything, you wouldn't have to pay taxes? What I mean: you pay taxes with the dollars you earned, you don't have to buy dollars on some market to pay taxes.

Re: BitCoin Under Fire

#20

Okay, if I'm understanding how transactions work, all transactions are public, as they need to be validated by the P2P network. This seems to be a significant disadvantage, to say dollars, where no record of a transaction exists. Am I missing something (that's what I'm assuming)? Or is having a list of all transactions viewed as a strength?

If you can hide your IP address (a big if if you ask me), you can still remain anonymous. The transactions are public with their public keys, nobody needs to know your private keys and hence what transactions belong to you.
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