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Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

arstechnica.com

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Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#151

Post by snyp »

sumanthvepa wrote: post #78

F1's problem is that it is a technological marvel that is simultaneously obsolete. Like the XB-71 Valkyrie project of the US AirForce, the technology powering modern F1 hybrid power trains is just outstandingly brilliant. However, just like the XB-71 was made obsolete by the advent of ICBMs, the hybrid power train's future for road cars has been overtaken by the advent of Tesla and battery electric vehicles. The meta…

Honda has left F1 5 times in the past. This is nothing new. They just seem to have different reasons every time!

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#152

Post by aleksandrm »

mhh__ wrote: post #82
sumanthvepa wrote: post #78

F1's problem is that it is a technological marvel that is simultaneously obsolete. Like the XB-71 Valkyrie project of the US AirForce, the technology powering modern F1 hybrid power trains is just outstandingly brilliant. However, just like the XB-71 was made obsolete by the advent of ICBMs, the hybrid power train's future for road cars has been overtaken by the advent of Tesla and battery electric vehicles. The meta…

Tesla killing F1 is a conclusion too far. The success of electric vehicles makes the calculus less good, but it's just another term in the equation for a company doing business in F1. Honda are still in other ICE motorsports. I think it's worth pointing out that Honda staying this long was a surprise in itself because, to be blunt, they were absolutely awful in their first years and no better than their rivals now. A…

If you mean their first years of a hybrid engine era, then yes, they were pretty awful. But their early years in the 80s as an engine supplier were very very succesful.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#153

Post by cwaffles »

mdoms wrote: post #150

I have a theory that F1 is motorsport for people with no interest in motorsport. You can't possibly watch it for the racing, in a series where 90 minute races routinely end with over 25 seconds between each podium car. Where the fanbase fanatically opposes things like simplified powertrains, simplified aero and control parts, which would all result in far better, closer racing but would (in their minds) erode the pre…

IMO F1 is a testing ground for engineers firstly, and a medium for displaying driver skill second.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#154

Post by modoc »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #108
serf wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

F1 technology is a lot more than just power-trains, I wish people would understand that better. Fuel chemistry, aerodynamics, functional simulation, driver ergonomics, safety dynamics, tire chemistry, metallurgy, analytics, data recording, composites, suspension, real-time telemetry and communication, digital systems management.. the list goes on forever. If the device/technique/procedure wasn't invented by F1, it wa…

Anybody in tech, and especially information technology, should be able to find something fascinating in F1. Winning an F1 race requires a huge amount of data processing, both for the operation of the race car itself, as well as for the simulations of race strategy in realtime. The teams bring enormous amounts of equipment to each race. Obviously a lot of that equipment is wrenches, screwdrivers, and related machinery…

While not F1, I did get to check out the garage of a Nascar team and was blown away by the technology and engineering. The car has a ton of sensors recording all kinds of data, and they have a rig that can use that data to essentially put the car into the physical condition at any millisecond of a previous race, i.e. wheel and tire position, precise suspension loads, etc.. so they can physically examine the car/tires/etc.. at any moment in reply of the whole race. Extremely cool stuff!

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#156

Post by justin66 »

toyg wrote: post #105
Thaxll wrote: post #9

Haha Red Bull, back to Renault.

I actually think we'll see a bit of shuffling and RedBull will end up with either an official Mercedes engine (i.e. Mercs will drop Will-- sorry, one customer, to replace them with RBR) or a funky rebranded not-officially-X-but-basically-the-same engine. Horner and Marko seem to have burnt "one bridge too far" with Renault, Renault themselves suggested that they would take RedBull as customer only as a last resort an…

It's a question of Ferrari selling them an engine because they want the money, or Renault selling them an engine because the FIA dictates it.

I'm not sure I can see the logic in Mercedes selling RBR an engine, since they're such a fearsome competitor, and I really doubt they want to break with Williams. Williams is a perfect customer for them: they aren't a real competitor, but they can serve as a place to park drivers from the Mercedes junior program.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#157

Post by TylerE »

serf wrote: post #95
sumanthvepa wrote: post #78

F1's problem is that it is a technological marvel that is simultaneously obsolete. Like the XB-71 Valkyrie project of the US AirForce, the technology powering modern F1 hybrid power trains is just outstandingly brilliant. However, just like the XB-71 was made obsolete by the advent of ICBMs, the hybrid power train's future for road cars has been overtaken by the advent of Tesla and battery electric vehicles. The meta…

F1 technology is a lot more than just power-trains, I wish people would understand that better. Fuel chemistry, aerodynamics, functional simulation, driver ergonomics, safety dynamics, tire chemistry, metallurgy, analytics, data recording, composites, suspension, real-time telemetry and communication, digital systems management.. the list goes on forever. If the device/technique/procedure wasn't invented by F1, it wa…

Really the aero and suspension is more impressive than the engine.

You could stick a commodity pushrod V8 in there and make 1000hp easy with a bolt on turbo and run the same laptimes.

Nothing else on earth is close to the aero.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#158

Post by W-Stool »

justin66 wrote: post #141
W-Stool wrote: post #84

Think about this scenario for a minute: You are top designer at an F1 team. You've got an idea that will (maybe) make the car go faster. Say it is a different profile rear wing. So you get the lads to build one up (you have your own carbon fibre maufacturing facility on site) and you mount it on the current car and then arrange for the team to rent (say) Brands Hatch for the day, run the new wing, compare sector time…

> This is all in the name of reducing expenses of course, but it has the opposite effect. You might not like it, but it certainly does reduce expenses.

Then why the new proposed budget caps? Seems like all these restricted technology rules would have taken care of this.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#159

Post by nradov »

W-Stool wrote: post #84

Think about this scenario for a minute: You are top designer at an F1 team. You've got an idea that will (maybe) make the car go faster. Say it is a different profile rear wing. So you get the lads to build one up (you have your own carbon fibre maufacturing facility on site) and you mount it on the current car and then arrange for the team to rent (say) Brands Hatch for the day, run the new wing, compare sector time…

I am a casual motorsports fan. F1 and Nascar have become boring with cookie-cutter cars. Would love to see a new racing series that allowed real innovation again. Just impose a team budget cap and some basic rules for track safety (no active aerodynamics, fuel load limits, etc). Otherwise do whatever you like whether it's a 16 cylinder engine or all-wheel drive or a giant wing or something totally nuts.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#160

Post by nradov »

ip26 wrote: post #96
W-Stool wrote: post #84

Think about this scenario for a minute: You are top designer at an F1 team. You've got an idea that will (maybe) make the car go faster. Say it is a different profile rear wing. So you get the lads to build one up (you have your own carbon fibre maufacturing facility on site) and you mount it on the current car and then arrange for the team to rent (say) Brands Hatch for the day, run the new wing, compare sector time…

This is all in the name of reducing expenses of course, but it has the opposite effect. I always thought it was more like, Ferrari will always spend gobs of money and a small player can only spend a tenth as much- the amount of money spent will not change- but how can we narrow the gap between the high budget & low budget teams, such that a really awesome low budget team has a chance of catching a high budget team na…

Ferrari is currently #6 out of 10 teams so whatever they're spending it's not working.

https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2020/team.html

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