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Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

arstechnica.com

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Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#121

Post by fomine3 »

nemo44x wrote: post #75

Auto racing will just never be the same. I don’t even think EV racing will evolve the sport. The golden days of auto racing involved real innovation like creating super chargers, turbos, certain efficiencies, and improvements in potting, etc. There was a time when we just didn’t know what could be done to build an engine that could run near the edge without blowing. I don’t think EV will ever have its equivalent. Jus…

Agreed. EV is relatively simple tech and current restriction is battery's capacity for price/weight/volume. I don't think EV components can get much improvements from racing like ICE engines.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#122

Post by geargrinder »

x87678r wrote: post #16

F1 isn't what it used to be last century. Races were nail biting epic contests, cars visibly improved every season, drivers were international celebrities dicing with real life ending risk, and passionate fans filled the stadiums. Modern races are just a procession of the same few people each weekend in global rich social events.

F1 has had very few years where one team didn't totally dominate. Some of those years were the best ever and showcased the drama, technology, power and talent which makes this such a great sport (88-89 is one example).

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#124

Post by bradlys »

gonzo41 wrote: post #101
mhh__ wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla killing F1 is a conclusion too far. The success of electric vehicles makes the calculus less good, but it's just another term in the equation for a company doing business in F1. Honda are still in other ICE motorsports. I think it's worth pointing out that Honda staying this long was a surprise in itself because, to be blunt, they were absolutely awful in their first years and no better than their rivals now. A…

Shouldn't F1 cars be about finding the peak of a X engineering problem. For electiric's it's not as much about speed but battery. Maybe having hyper-miler distance races that aren't speed oriented is the sort of pivot F1 should be doing? I know it's not sexy like a fast car moving nimbly among the pack but if car companies can get their tech focused on getting the most distance from a battery then there's the cross o…

> Shouldn't F1 cars be about finding the peak of a X engineering problem. For electiric's it's not as much about speed but battery. Maybe having hyper-miler distance races that aren't speed oriented is the sort of pivot F1 should be doing? I know it's not sexy like a fast car moving nimbly among the pack but if car companies can get their tech focused on getting the most distance from a battery then there's the cross over development that can flow to the mainstream. But I know, watching a slow race is a big ask.

I don't think anyone wants to watch a slow race. Hyper-miler distance races sounds like an oxymoron as hypermiling usually involves ridiculous theatrics of going 30-40mph on the freeway to maximize efficiency. It wouldn't even be racing in the traditional sense - it would be akin to a time trial but distance based. There'd be almost no need to overtake, would there?

I'm not a big fan of F1 as it stands (it's rather uneventful at times) but using EVs in this way would kill it completely as far as I can tell.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#125

Post by geargrinder »

chrisseaton wrote: post #58
x87678r wrote: post #16

F1 isn't what it used to be last century. Races were nail biting epic contests, cars visibly improved every season, drivers were international celebrities dicing with real life ending risk, and passionate fans filled the stadiums. Modern races are just a procession of the same few people each weekend in global rich social events.

Why do they make all the cars the same? Why not have a maximum size or something like that and let people innovate within that to do whatever they want? Why the 'formula'?

Well that is exactly what Formula 1 is. Unlike NASCAR or Indycar where everything is prescribed, there is a formula which sets the outlines of the box and teams are free to play within that box. The box has just gotten really small in the past couple of decades.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#126

Post by suryabeep »

alexb7c4 wrote: post #120
GhostVII wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there problem is that it's just boring to watch because they are so fast - it is extremely hard to pass without hacks like DRS, which makes F1 races really boring to watch. And I'm sure most fans would much rather switch back to the v10 engines even though they are more "obsolete", a conventional powertrain doesn't make them any more boring to watch (it actually makes them more exciting imo). And if battery t…

Any suggestions of racing series more interesting than F1? I tried to watch Blancpain, Super GT, IMSA, Le Mans - all of them seem to have almost non-existent level of overtaking (even worse than in F1 imho)

Try MotoGP, it's got plenty of overtaking.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#127

Post by TeeMassive »

Call me cynical but I doubt all those companies claiming they'll go "green" or "100% electric" in X years really do that for the environment or are really serious about it.

There is no economical reason to do so dude to the fact that electric cars cost too much, mainly due to the batteries for which the price can only increase if there is a market of a billion users. And except for the high end market which Tesla occupies the most, nobody has the money for that.

Not to say I'm against the idea, coming from a place where hydroelectricity is king I just can't wait to get my first electric car, but I am skeptical.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#128

Post by NoOneNew »

W-Stool wrote: post #84

Think about this scenario for a minute: You are top designer at an F1 team. You've got an idea that will (maybe) make the car go faster. Say it is a different profile rear wing. So you get the lads to build one up (you have your own carbon fibre maufacturing facility on site) and you mount it on the current car and then arrange for the team to rent (say) Brands Hatch for the day, run the new wing, compare sector time…

This video highlights some of what you're talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnIjQC08qKk

Little out of the box innovations that are pretty cool and then banned. The mass dampener in the video is really what gets to me. FIA just loves to ban random things. Like, I get some forced regulations according to safety. The Halos, for example, I get that they must be to a specific standard. But a simple mechanical device that helps keep the car stable, gripping the road? Ban that? We're not talking about group B rally level of innovation.

Kind of feels like the FIA adopted the principle, "If it's fun and/or interesting, ban it."

Fresh blood is needed too.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#129

Post by doe88 »

sumanthvepa wrote: post #78

F1's problem is that it is a technological marvel that is simultaneously obsolete. Like the XB-71 Valkyrie project of the US AirForce, the technology powering modern F1 hybrid power trains is just outstandingly brilliant. However, just like the XB-71 was made obsolete by the advent of ICBMs, the hybrid power train's future for road cars has been overtaken by the advent of Tesla and battery electric vehicles. The meta…

What's not well known is that actually are hybrids technologies used in F1, e.g. MGU-H and MGU-K components.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#130

Post by ll931110 »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #108
serf wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

F1 technology is a lot more than just power-trains, I wish people would understand that better. Fuel chemistry, aerodynamics, functional simulation, driver ergonomics, safety dynamics, tire chemistry, metallurgy, analytics, data recording, composites, suspension, real-time telemetry and communication, digital systems management.. the list goes on forever. If the device/technique/procedure wasn't invented by F1, it wa…

Anybody in tech, and especially information technology, should be able to find something fascinating in F1. Winning an F1 race requires a huge amount of data processing, both for the operation of the race car itself, as well as for the simulations of race strategy in realtime. The teams bring enormous amounts of equipment to each race. Obviously a lot of that equipment is wrenches, screwdrivers, and related machinery…

Even cheats in F1 are brilliant by engineering standard. Look at how Ferrari (allegedly) circumvent the fuel flow limit by aliasing techniques.

https://motorsport.tech/formula-1/fuel-flow-gate-did-ferrari...

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