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Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

arstechnica.com

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Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#81
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, Formula E?

“ A Honda Formula E program has already been ruled out”

Doesn't rule out Extreme E: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMsfLJB5S9E

Or E1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTRAU-zRd8k

Or World Rallycross Projekt E: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUwRnBhtevE

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#82

F1's problem is that it is a technological marvel that is simultaneously obsolete. Like the XB-71 Valkyrie project of the US AirForce, the technology powering modern F1 hybrid power trains is just outstandingly brilliant. However, just like the XB-71 was made obsolete by the advent of ICBMs, the hybrid power train's future for road cars has been overtaken by the advent of Tesla and battery electric vehicles. The meta…

Tesla killing F1 is a conclusion too far. The success of electric vehicles makes the calculus less good, but it's just another term in the equation for a company doing business in F1. Honda are still in other ICE motorsports.

I think it's worth pointing out that Honda staying this long was a surprise in itself because, to be blunt, they were absolutely awful in their first years and no better than their rivals now.

Also, the issue for a battery powered racing series isn't really efficiency at the moment but actually just being able to actually do the race distance at an acceptable speed. If they could make Formula E cars go fast enough they'd have already switched, or at least put pen to paper.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#83
post #77
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No you wouldn't. Cornering G is lateral. That doesn't pull blood from the brain. Not to say it's exactly FUN, but it won't cause you to black out.

And Braking G is along the longitudinal axis of the driver, they could red-out.

I don't think that's likely considering that they are mostly laying down in the car with the feet only slightly below their head, so relatively flat overall. In braking, blood would be forced to their legs/feet, so you'd see gray/black out.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#84
Think about this scenario for a minute:

You are top designer at an F1 team. You've got an idea that will (maybe) make the car go faster. Say it is a different profile rear wing. So you get the lads to build one up (you have your own carbon fibre maufacturing facility on site) and you mount it on the current car and then arrange for the team to rent (say) Brands Hatch for the day, run the new wing, compare sector times, get feedback from the driver, etc - something any technical person would expect to do.

Problem: this is completely against the rules. Can't just take the car out to the track and run it between races when you want. That's why these insane chassis dynos exist, everything is a simulation now, even wind tunnel time and the number of CPUs in your CFD cluster are being regulated. This is all in the name of reducing expenses of course, but it has the opposite effect.

I saw my first F1 race in 1979, it was really something. The sport I see now has almost nothing to do with those times - in some good ways (safety!) but mostly bad (see above).

I'm out.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#85
post #83
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Braking G is along the longitudinal axis of the driver, they could red-out.

I don't think that's likely considering that they are mostly laying down in the car with the feet only slightly below their head, so relatively flat overall. In braking, blood would be forced to their legs/feet, so you'd see gray/black out.

You're right. I literally laid down in the driving position our FSAE car has and I still got it backwards, oh dear.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#86
post #75

Auto racing will just never be the same. I don’t even think EV racing will evolve the sport. The golden days of auto racing involved real innovation like creating super chargers, turbos, certain efficiencies, and improvements in potting, etc. There was a time when we just didn’t know what could be done to build an engine that could run near the edge without blowing. I don’t think EV will ever have its equivalent. Jus…

I imagine that Formula E will support more innovation as they grow, with more suppliers and a contested regulations.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#87

F1's problem is that it is a technological marvel that is simultaneously obsolete. Like the XB-71 Valkyrie project of the US AirForce, the technology powering modern F1 hybrid power trains is just outstandingly brilliant. However, just like the XB-71 was made obsolete by the advent of ICBMs, the hybrid power train's future for road cars has been overtaken by the advent of Tesla and battery electric vehicles. The meta…

Tesla didn't kill anything, electric battery technology is old and simple, any car maker can quickly switch to battery. In fact, battery vehicles are orders of magnitude easier to build than ICE vehicles. You talk as if Tesla had invented something extraordinaire. Stop drinking the kool aid.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#88
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

F-1 was really interesting years ago. With no traction control or advanced aerodynamics and less regulations on engine power, it was a real arena for drivers. It was so fierce that Senna decided to hit his rival in the first corner of a race, taking out both, solidifying Senna's championship. It was exciting too. Since drivers need to take risks with 750+ HP beasts, Senna battling Schumacher, Villneuve battling Coult…

Traction control has been banned in F1 since 2008. There have always been engine regulations. The drivers are fighting as hard as ever against each other when they get a chance. Pit stop tactics are not a secret sauce. You can predict the pit stop strategy pretty well before the race even starts. It has always been as much about cars as drivers. E.g. McLaren won 4 years in the row 1988-1991 and then Williams won 3 ye…

Wasn't it banned much earlier? Famously in 94 Senna was under pressure in the Williams which was suffering without the traction control it enjoyed the year before, and he also had raised suspicions after standing trackside that Benetton were using an illegal form of traction control that year.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#89
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, Formula E?

Formula E is entirely unlike how F1 was. The big one is that all drivers drive the same chassis and battery, and with strict regulations regarding the engine. Pilots may as well all drive the same car. They also added Mario Kart style boosts. This is a game, mostly intended to provide entertainment and show off the pilot skills. F1 was as much about constructors as it was about pilots, and in fact, being a pilot was…

> Formula E is entirely unlike how F1 was.

Well, exactly the same can be said about F1. It's certainly not the tiniest bit like how it used to be.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#90
post #75

Auto racing will just never be the same. I don’t even think EV racing will evolve the sport. The golden days of auto racing involved real innovation like creating super chargers, turbos, certain efficiencies, and improvements in potting, etc. There was a time when we just didn’t know what could be done to build an engine that could run near the edge without blowing. I don’t think EV will ever have its equivalent. Jus…

Where I live often times I hear from the street below a group young men riding motorcycles down the street as a group. A bit of mad Max in it. They make a lot of sound and some drivers make their bikes ride in a upright position with only the read wheel on the road.

I can see they're having lots of fun, partly because of the loud roaring sound their engines make. They make their presence known. It makes me wonder what will the kids do in a few years when all bikes are electric.

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