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Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

arstechnica.com

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Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#51

Post by znkynz »

snuxoll wrote: post #37
x87678r wrote: post #16

F1 isn't what it used to be last century. Races were nail biting epic contests, cars visibly improved every season, drivers were international celebrities dicing with real life ending risk, and passionate fans filled the stadiums. Modern races are just a procession of the same few people each weekend in global rich social events.

Modern F1 has an extreme amount of simulation behind it that just didn’t exist last century. Whether you can make a car that is good or not is a factor of budget you can spend on engineering teams, wind tunnel time, etc., instead of what whacky idea you can come up with that makes the car better. Budget caps introduced this year will hopefully start to level the playing field once the 2022 regs kick in.

> Whether you can make a car that is good or not is a factor of budget you can spend on engineering teams

This has been true since the 1970s.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#52

Post by ZephyrBlu »

walshemj wrote: post #38
MHordecki wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they have yearly CPU instruction limits This sounded too ridiculous to me, so I started digging. Lo and behold, [1]. Appendix 8, sections 2 and 3. The entire thing is a fun read, with pearls such as: in the case of an Intel CPU with either the Sandybridge or Ivybridge chipset where the competitor chooses not to exploit the AVX feature; the competitor must explicitly declare and be able to demonstrate that they are…

CPU? wouldn't f1 teams be using GPU for their CFD work

You should have a quick read through the document, that's just one rule.

The rules seem mostly focused on computations rather than hardware.

I'm not that familiar with the hardware-level stuff they're talking about, but it seems likely that there are situations where a CPU is preferable to a GPU under these rules.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#53

Post by mlindner »

csours wrote: post #50
snuxoll wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Formula E also has a monopoly on FIA sanctioned all-electric single seater racing for 25 seasons, so F1 cannot go full EV until 2039 at minimum unless contracts get renegotiated. Will be interesting to see what happens to F1 as a result, Indycar as well. Petrolheads can whine about electric racing all they want, but engine suppliers are losing interest in making gas engines when the consumer market is in a shift away…

So, right now F1 has hybrid engines. Is there a power mix they can't cross before they infringe on Formula E? Or is it just literally, has to have an engine on board? Racing teams have never been shy about running right up to the edge of defined rules, and also running wild in undefined areas.

I'd assume the dividing line is what type of motor drives the wheels directly.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#54

Post by vr46 »

x87678r wrote: post #16

F1 isn't what it used to be last century. Races were nail biting epic contests, cars visibly improved every season, drivers were international celebrities dicing with real life ending risk, and passionate fans filled the stadiums. Modern races are just a procession of the same few people each weekend in global rich social events.

F1 is more interesting to read about than watch. Quick fix: limit braking efficiencies. The ridiculously short braking zones make opportunities for fighting very limited, so I’d love to see racers having to be more strategic in their driving. It’s not really a spectator sport, it’s a technical contest. MotoGP exists for racing and action.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#55

Post by snuxoll »

znkynz wrote: post #51
snuxoll wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern F1 has an extreme amount of simulation behind it that just didn’t exist last century. Whether you can make a car that is good or not is a factor of budget you can spend on engineering teams, wind tunnel time, etc., instead of what whacky idea you can come up with that makes the car better. Budget caps introduced this year will hopefully start to level the playing field once the 2022 regs kick in.

> Whether you can make a car that is good or not is a factor of budget you can spend on engineering teams This has been true since the 1970s.

Not to the degree seen in F1 since the start of the turbo hybrid era. Scrappy underdog teams could score wins with creative, out of the box thinking that was possible with a small budget. Today the only time you see a team with a budget less than Mercedes, Ferrari or Red Bull winning is because of some act of god during the race.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#56

Post by caw »

CGamesPlay wrote: post #34
bayindirh wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

F-1 was really interesting years ago. With no traction control or advanced aerodynamics and less regulations on engine power, it was a real arena for drivers. It was so fierce that Senna decided to hit his rival in the first corner of a race, taking out both, solidifying Senna's championship. It was exciting too. Since drivers need to take risks with 750+ HP beasts, Senna battling Schumacher, Villneuve battling Coult…

> (they have yearly CPU instruction limits!) I don't know anything about this sport, but does this mean that you can't buy an off-the-shelf product?

There are a set of “listed” parts that must be designed by the constructor team. There was a bit of a controversy this year because Racing Point used last year’s Mercedes brake duct design. The part was not listed last year, meaning it was ok then, but it became a listed part in 2020 season. Racing Point was penalized a few points in the standings as a result, but allowed to use the design since they couldn’t unlearn how Mercedes designed the brake duct.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#57

Post by TYPE_FASTER »

causality0 wrote: post #11

F-1 has always baffled me as a sport. Not that it's inherently bad or boring, just that there are so many motor sports that make it look that way. Same with NASCAR. I don't understand how an audience for those exists when, for example, rally races exist.

I'll never forget watching the Prost vs. Senna battles with my dad. It was as much fun as watching the WRC.

The Netflix series covering F1 is fun to watch.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#58

Post by chrisseaton »

x87678r wrote: post #16

F1 isn't what it used to be last century. Races were nail biting epic contests, cars visibly improved every season, drivers were international celebrities dicing with real life ending risk, and passionate fans filled the stadiums. Modern races are just a procession of the same few people each weekend in global rich social events.

Why do they make all the cars the same?

Why not have a maximum size or something like that and let people innovate within that to do whatever they want? Why the 'formula'?

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#59

Post by chrisseaton »

causality0 wrote: post #11

F-1 has always baffled me as a sport. Not that it's inherently bad or boring, just that there are so many motor sports that make it look that way. Same with NASCAR. I don't understand how an audience for those exists when, for example, rally races exist.

> I don't understand how an audience for those exists when, for example, rally races exist.

People find competitive races more exciting than individual time trials. I don't think that's really unfathomable is it?

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#60

Post by andoriyu »

chrisseaton wrote: post #58
x87678r wrote: post #16

F1 isn't what it used to be last century. Races were nail biting epic contests, cars visibly improved every season, drivers were international celebrities dicing with real life ending risk, and passionate fans filled the stadiums. Modern races are just a procession of the same few people each weekend in global rich social events.

Why do they make all the cars the same? Why not have a maximum size or something like that and let people innovate within that to do whatever they want? Why the 'formula'?

Because there is already Indy...
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