Earlier quoted context omitted.
With the automobile market transitioning to EV, it is inevitable that F1 will be rebooted as an EV contest. Expect Honda to re-enter then, particularly if MotoGP goes EV first.
So, Formula E?
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Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead
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Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
With the automobile market transitioning to EV, it is inevitable that F1 will be rebooted as an EV contest. Expect Honda to re-enter then, particularly if MotoGP goes EV first.
So, Formula E?
Formula E also has a monopoly on FIA sanctioned all-electric single seater racing for 25 seasons, so F1 cannot go full EV until 2039 at minimum unless contracts get renegotiated.
Will be interesting to see what happens to F1 as a result, Indycar as well. Petrolheads can whine about electric racing all they want, but engine suppliers are losing interest in making gas engines when the consumer market is in a shift away from them. Even Ferrari will have to adapt to the times at some point.
Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead
#33F-1 has always baffled me as a sport. Not that it's inherently bad or boring, just that there are so many motor sports that make it look that way. Same with NASCAR. I don't understand how an audience for those exists when, for example, rally races exist.
F-1 was really interesting years ago. With no traction control or advanced aerodynamics and less regulations on engine power, it was a real arena for drivers. It was so fierce that Senna decided to hit his rival in the first corner of a race, taking out both, solidifying Senna's championship. It was exciting too. Since drivers need to take risks with 750+ HP beasts, Senna battling Schumacher, Villneuve battling Coult…
Traction control has been banned in F1 since 2008.
There have always been engine regulations. The drivers are fighting as hard as ever against each other when they get a chance.
Pit stop tactics are not a secret sauce. You can predict the pit stop strategy pretty well before the race even starts.
It has always been as much about cars as drivers. E.g. McLaren won 4 years in the row 1988-1991 and then Williams won 3 years in the row. Ferrari won 6 years in the row from 1999 to 2004.
I really don't think remote engine tuning added any excitement.
There have been proposals such as reverse-grid races or qualifications that would have added a lot of excitement but traditionalists are against them. Maybe having a couple restarts would also help. The cars are now much more reliable than in the past so there is less random chance.
Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead
#34F-1 has always baffled me as a sport. Not that it's inherently bad or boring, just that there are so many motor sports that make it look that way. Same with NASCAR. I don't understand how an audience for those exists when, for example, rally races exist.
F-1 was really interesting years ago. With no traction control or advanced aerodynamics and less regulations on engine power, it was a real arena for drivers. It was so fierce that Senna decided to hit his rival in the first corner of a race, taking out both, solidifying Senna's championship. It was exciting too. Since drivers need to take risks with 750+ HP beasts, Senna battling Schumacher, Villneuve battling Coult…
> (they have yearly CPU instruction limits!)
I don't know anything about this sport, but does this mean that you can't buy an off-the-shelf product?
Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead
#35F-1 has always baffled me as a sport. Not that it's inherently bad or boring, just that there are so many motor sports that make it look that way. Same with NASCAR. I don't understand how an audience for those exists when, for example, rally races exist.
F-1 was really interesting years ago. With no traction control or advanced aerodynamics and less regulations on engine power, it was a real arena for drivers. It was so fierce that Senna decided to hit his rival in the first corner of a race, taking out both, solidifying Senna's championship. It was exciting too. Since drivers need to take risks with 750+ HP beasts, Senna battling Schumacher, Villneuve battling Coult…
> they have yearly CPU instruction limits
This sounded too ridiculous to me, so I started digging. Lo and behold, [1]. Appendix 8, sections 2 and 3.
The entire thing is a fun read, with pearls such as:
in the case of an Intel CPU with either the Sandybridge or Ivybridge
chipset where the competitor chooses not to exploit the AVX feature; the
competitor must explicitly declare and be able to demonstrate that they are
not using the AVX feature in the CFD solve process. If the non‐usage of the
AVX feature is proven to the auditor, the Intel Sandybridge and Ivybridge
chipset cores can be rated as 4 FLOP/cycle/core rather than as 8
FLOP/cycle/core.
Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead
#36Hmm, I wonder whether there’s a fight going on at HRC over the MotoGP budget?
Interesting question, but really the answer is ultimately that EV and AV are hideously capital intensive, so Honda needs the money for that.
Also, if EV is the future (as Honda is indicating that they believe), then F1 is not the appropriate place to signal their engineering competence.
Disclaimer: I work for GM but not on EV, AV or Motorsport. This is solely my own opinion.
Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead
#37F1 isn't what it used to be last century. Races were nail biting epic contests, cars visibly improved every season, drivers were international celebrities dicing with real life ending risk, and passionate fans filled the stadiums. Modern races are just a procession of the same few people each weekend in global rich social events.
Modern F1 has an extreme amount of simulation behind it that just didn’t exist last century. Whether you can make a car that is good or not is a factor of budget you can spend on engineering teams, wind tunnel time, etc., instead of what whacky idea you can come up with that makes the car better.
Budget caps introduced this year will hopefully start to level the playing field once the 2022 regs kick in.
Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
F-1 was really interesting years ago. With no traction control or advanced aerodynamics and less regulations on engine power, it was a real arena for drivers. It was so fierce that Senna decided to hit his rival in the first corner of a race, taking out both, solidifying Senna's championship. It was exciting too. Since drivers need to take risks with 750+ HP beasts, Senna battling Schumacher, Villneuve battling Coult…
> they have yearly CPU instruction limits This sounded too ridiculous to me, so I started digging. Lo and behold, [1]. Appendix 8, sections 2 and 3. The entire thing is a fun read, with pearls such as: in the case of an Intel CPU with either the Sandybridge or Ivybridge chipset where the competitor chooses not to exploit the AVX feature; the competitor must explicitly declare and be able to demonstrate that they are…
CPU? wouldn't f1 teams be using GPU for their CFD work
Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead
#39F-1 has always baffled me as a sport. Not that it's inherently bad or boring, just that there are so many motor sports that make it look that way. Same with NASCAR. I don't understand how an audience for those exists when, for example, rally races exist.
F-1 was really interesting years ago. With no traction control or advanced aerodynamics and less regulations on engine power, it was a real arena for drivers. It was so fierce that Senna decided to hit his rival in the first corner of a race, taking out both, solidifying Senna's championship. It was exciting too. Since drivers need to take risks with 750+ HP beasts, Senna battling Schumacher, Villneuve battling Coult…
Traction control was banned quite a while ago from what i remember. That really did take away the skill from driving and make it technical arms race. There is still skill required now.
I do agree rules have killed some of the fun, it seems to be the reliance on aerodynamics as a means to gain an advantage after the limits on engine power and lifetime (top teams having a "qualifying engine" that was destroyed after one qually session, and race engines designed to last one race was crazy though).
Aero being so important means following other cars for an overtake puts the car behind at a real disadvantage, hence the "DRS" hack.
The trouble with F1 is that the "anything goes" environment they had until the 80s/90s will always be more exciting than the rules they have now to stop drivers killing themselves. They did seem to choose rules that disproportionately worked against creating fun races though.
Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead
#40Honda is like a decade behind Tesla and 5 years behind GM and VW on BEV so they definitely need to invest (as does Toyota)
I doubt there is actually a link to dropping F1, however.