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How to get a job at a startup if you aren’t a developer

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Re: How to get a job at a startup if you aren’t a developer

#21

Post by Timothee »

Regarding #4, and in particular "If it’s more of a product role, build something!"

How would that work for a non-developer?

By paying someone to do it? (not necessarily easy. Not everyone has enough entrepreneurial spirit to invest in their own idea, while still being valuable to a startup) By making mock-ups, specs and publishing them somewhere? It would seem fine to me, but I wonder if some could see that as being an "idea guy" for not having something tangible and working to show.

Re: How to get a job at a startup if you aren’t a developer

#22

Post by edw519 »

aridiculous wrote: post #20
edw519 wrote: post #17

I know OP means well, but this is some of the most misguided advice I've ever seen on Hacker News... 1. Know the tech landscape better than anybody else This is like saying, "Know God" or "Know the meaning of life". You'll be chasing down something elusive and nebulous while the rest of us are learning, building, and growing. Also, you will never know anything better than anybody else, so just get that self-defeating…

I agree with a couple of your points but I think you might be overreacting. When the OP said to hang out at HN or learn all about the culture, that's really helpful for those who are completely unfamiliar with the whole industry. A lot of smart kids have never entered this world and it's a good primer. Just because they are new to startups doesn't make them hopeless -- I arrived a couple years ago and spent a few mon…

I agree with a couple of your points but I think you might be overreacting.

You're probably right and if so, I apologize. I guess it's just my way of venting my frustration with so many people talking when they should be listening. To me, OP's post just seems like feeding fuel to that fire.

I would never want to discourage anyone from becoming part of our community. It's just that some ways are much better than others.

And how else do you expect someone to get into the industry without some cold emails or calls?

Networking. Better to get out there without an agenda, meet people, and grow. Most of us would much rather meet someone and get to know them than to just delete another unsolicited email among hundreds of others.

Whether you email, network, or do something else, here's the most important thing: have something of value to offer, and offer it. That will get you noticed.

That said, one should always be building up a defined skillset concurrently.

Definitely! This never ends.

Re: How to get a job at a startup if you aren’t a developer

#23

Post by jsavimbi »

18pfsmt wrote: post #18
jsavimbi wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I have absolutely no idea what non-developers do at startups" Disclaimer: developer at technology companies. Well, they'd better know how to sell, and sell well, if they want to get a job in a lean business that simply doesn't have room for people who aren't contributing directly to the bottom line. Another position is that of business development. Soft skill, but really necessary to provide pre and post sales suppo…

The last VC-backed startup I worked at, the marketing people were 3 Harvard MBAs that kept the sales people away from the developers, and they helped us figure out what product features were most relevant to implement. They also got us the latest and greatest sample ASICs.

That makes sense if you're not a technology-only company (see disclaimer).

The space is probably/could be crowded and they're going to need some sharp assets to get the word out and obtain customers, but in my case where every sale incurs more work from engineering, one has to balance it out or else we'll end up with a bunch of over-eager sales people signing low-end deals and a couple of angry, burned-out developers perusing HN wondering how their hacker dreams turned into biz dev nightmare.

Coffee is for closers.

Re: How to get a job at a startup if you aren’t a developer

#24

Post by donofrip »

I get a sense of a little non-developer hate going on below... so fair disclosure, I am not a developer. I am an aspiring entrepreneur, and yes, I am working on a web-based company. I also work on Wall Street, so I apparently chose the other option Eric to which alludes.

The value add of a non-developer to a startup is pretty simple--they bring a different perspective than a developer does. Diversity is a good thing. I'm working on building something that I believe would be enormously useful, and it approaches a problem in a way that hasn't been done online before. I think the reason I was able to come up with this idea was precisely because I'm not part of the "online" community. There are certain ways things are done when building an online business that have become part of the "culture" to which the article speaks. Being able to approach a problem from a point of view without a preconceived or subconscious notion can add enormous value to a startup. That said, I am becoming part of this community because I do need the technical expertise to help build the product and it is easier to find someone to partner with than learn to program myself (although I do know some).

It is the same as growing up reading and writing a western language. You don't even consider the notion that text would be written or read in another direction than left to right. Having a Chinese friend at a young age would keep you thinking in different and more creative ways.

Re: How to get a job at a startup if you aren’t a developer

#25

Post by jsavimbi »

edw519 wrote: post #22
aridiculous wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with a couple of your points but I think you might be overreacting. When the OP said to hang out at HN or learn all about the culture, that's really helpful for those who are completely unfamiliar with the whole industry. A lot of smart kids have never entered this world and it's a good primer. Just because they are new to startups doesn't make them hopeless -- I arrived a couple years ago and spent a few mon…

I agree with a couple of your points but I think you might be overreacting. You're probably right and if so, I apologize. I guess it's just my way of venting my frustration with so many people talking when they should be listening. To me, OP's post just seems like feeding fuel to that fire. I would never want to discourage anyone from becoming part of our community. It's just that some ways are much better than other…

"Networking."

Absolutely right.

Do you know how hard it is to find good potential hires? It's really fucking hard, costly and time-consuming. If you think you're doing someone a favor by dropping off your resume at their job-fair booth, you've got some things to learn.

The best jobs are found via recommendation for a positions; better than that is to be recommended as a hire without there even being a position open with your specific skill or even a strategy in place on how to address that. Nobody is going to read your blog posts and come calling. (Unfortunately, some times they do for reasons unknown. Don't ask me why.)

The only way to do that is to get out there and execute on your ideas, make friends with as many people as you can, respect them and yourself and yes, network your ass off, even if you aren't looking for a job. Show some chuptzah, create demand around yourself and get them thinking that if they don't float an offer out to you, someone else will.

Re: How to get a job at a startup if you aren’t a developer

#26

Post by gersh »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #13
gersh wrote: post #10

A non-developer needs to have some skill, which can't be automated by a computer. Such things include: design, writing, managing people, talking to customers, investors, money and relationships. If AI becomes capable of automating such tasks, their job may become obsolete.

> If AI becomes capable of automating such tasks, their job may become obsolete. And factory automation and robotics have eliminated the needs for workers, yup.

The workers need to be able to automate stuff or manage people, who do. Many high-paid, unskilled factory jobs have disappeared. The jobs are doing things that can't be easily automated. The more automatable the lower the pay.

Re: How to get a job at a startup if you aren’t a developer

#27

Post by DavidChouinard »

stevenj wrote: post #14
acconrad wrote: post #9

If you're not a developer, you should still learn how to code. At least showing that you're willing to learn goes a long way so you can help with even the little things, such as fixing pixels or checking in small bugs. Think of it another way: would you join a renewable energy startup if you didn't know some engineering (materials, chemistry, mechanical, electrical, et al) fundamentals? How do you think you would do…

Should developers learn how to do customer service? Sales? Biz Dev? Design? HR?

Sure they should.

A developer casually reading a few books/blogs could learn pretty much all those domains. The same can't be said of business guys doing the opposite.

Re: How to get a job at a startup if you aren’t a developer

#28

Post by gersh »

aridiculous wrote: post #16

I had to learn most of this stuff on my own, but it's a very good summary to pass on to my friends. Seems like startups are getting more and more mainstream. The problem is most college grads in non-technical fields generally don't have skills beyond being smart, maybe. I was one of them. This wouldn't be too much of an issue but most also don't like or aren't any good at selling. The way I see it, you have to do som…

You could be a good writer or designer. Video skills can be useful. Research skills can also be useful.

Re: How to get a job at a startup if you aren’t a developer

#29

Post by 18pfsmt »

jsavimbi wrote: post #23
18pfsmt wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last VC-backed startup I worked at, the marketing people were 3 Harvard MBAs that kept the sales people away from the developers, and they helped us figure out what product features were most relevant to implement. They also got us the latest and greatest sample ASICs.

That makes sense if you're not a technology-only company (see disclaimer). The space is probably/could be crowded and they're going to need some sharp assets to get the word out and obtain customers, but in my case where every sale incurs more work from engineering, one has to balance it out or else we'll end up with a bunch of over-eager sales people signing low-end deals and a couple of angry, burned-out developers…

Actually, we were a technology company. We developed embedded systems for RFID/ NFC technology to sell and license to OEMs. Firmware for DSPs and MCUs is some of the harder technology I've been involved with. I'm not sure I understand your point.

FYI, ASIC stands for Application Specific Integrated Circuit.

Re: How to get a job at a startup if you aren’t a developer

#30

Post by Dramatize »

Timothee wrote: post #21

Regarding #4, and in particular "If it’s more of a product role, build something!" How would that work for a non-developer? By paying someone to do it? (not necessarily easy. Not everyone has enough entrepreneurial spirit to invest in their own idea, while still being valuable to a startup) By making mock-ups, specs and publishing them somewhere? It would seem fine to me, but I wonder if some could see that as being…

What I'm doing is relaunching an older website that's already been developed - but not promoted/maintained for the last two years.

This means I can work on what I'm good at (design and marketing) and use any money coming in to pay a developer to make any changes I can't.

Was it Neil from CrazyEgg that does something similar? I remember hearing something like that on a Mixergy interview.

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