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Modi government to set up app store alternative to Google Play, Apple App Store

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Re: Modi government to set up app store alternative to Google Play, Apple App Store

#351

Post by selestify »

jolux wrote: post #344
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tor Browser is terrible for security [citation needed] The exit node can't do anything your ISP can't. Meanwhile you can choose the exit node, which you often can't for your ISP, which means you can choose one operated by someone you trust. And even if you don't, what are they going to do to a TLS connection? > and I don’t think Firefox started doing tracking prevention before Safari did Tor Browser is based on Fir…

>And even if you don't, what are they going to do to a TLS connection? You misunderstand me. Tor Browser is based on Firefox ESR, which means it lags with security updates: https://medium.com/@thegrugq/tor-and-its-discontents-ef51648... Tor itself is not what I was referring to, although it has its problems as well, mainly that it's extremely identifiable. Tor is not a good idea for most people to use full-time. The…

How is tor extremely identifiable? How does the dark net manage to stay up if it’s identifiable?

Re: Modi government to set up app store alternative to Google Play, Apple App Store

#352

Post by jolux »

selestify wrote: post #351
jolux wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And even if you don't, what are they going to do to a TLS connection? You misunderstand me. Tor Browser is based on Firefox ESR, which means it lags with security updates: https://medium.com/@thegrugq/tor-and-its-discontents-ef51648... Tor itself is not what I was referring to, although it has its problems as well, mainly that it's extremely identifiable. Tor is not a good idea for most people to use full-time. The…

How is tor extremely identifiable? How does the dark net manage to stay up if it’s identifiable?

Not in the sense that you can de-anonymize people easily (though easier than you might think) but that it makes your traffic identifiable as Tor traffic, which can be worse than the anonymity benefits. VPNs (setup with WireGuard, possibly via Algo, though never a commercial provider) are a better choice for most users.

Re: Modi government to set up app store alternative to Google Play, Apple App Store

#353

Post by zepto »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #342
zepto wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually there is no difference. As soon as Apple is constrained, everyone else who can impose requirements will do so. This idea about choosing which stores you trust, is a complete fantasy. Even in the most free market of countries, you’ll end up with a small set of corporations you don’t trust as he only viable stores.

> As soon as Apple is constrained, everyone else who can impose requirements will do so. But that's precisely where the distinction matters -- there can be a hundred stores with onerous requirements, but if there is nothing requiring you to use any of them, you don't. It's obviously a problem if you're required to use a specific store instead of the one you want to, but that's the problem today -- it's the thing requ…

Do you trust Facebook?

Re: Modi government to set up app store alternative to Google Play, Apple App Store

#354

Post by ptx »

parasubvert wrote: post #349
ptx wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Libertarian Wild West on our phones where anyone can install anything from any store An important distinction is that while I can install whatever I want on my phone and you can install whatever you want on your phone, removing Apple's monopoly on distribution wouldn't make our phones world-writable to "anyone". > Mobile operators alone will balk at that. They didn't. We already had multiple app stores for J2ME, Wi…

> They didn't. We already had multiple app stores for J2ME, Windows CE and Symbian apps before Apple started the trend of locking things down. There were no "App Stores" for J2ME apps, per se. You certainly could buy and install apps from ISVs, but they were heavily locked down based on carrier policy. I developed apps for WinCE, Palm and Blackberry and the carrier-mandatory permissions were strict depending on the j…

By "locking things down" I meant locking down distribution to a single app store. Certainly J2ME apps were locked down via a system of permissions, where you had to buy a code signing cert to be granted the more interesting ones.

But you could still install them from multiple sources, e.g. the phone manufacturer, the carrier, the software vendor directly, or even via Bluetooth. And unsigned apps were granted enough permissions to be perfectly viable in many cases.

The "carrier policy" you mention might be a US-specific problem.

Re: Modi government to set up app store alternative to Google Play, Apple App Store

#355

Post by devdas »

what_ever wrote: post #336
devdas wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This enables tax revenues for the Indian government.

Pretty sure they are already getting tax money from the existing app stores. Do you have any source that they don't?

https://inc42.com/buzz/indian-govt-likely-to-tax-google-face...

They only collect a limited subset of taxes (VAT). The larger part of income is to the US and isn't taxed in India yet.

Re: Modi government to set up app store alternative to Google Play, Apple App Store

#356

Post by AnthonyMouse »

zepto wrote: post #350
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Key apps have zero incentive to try to get people to switch to Android. Google Play is less stringent about privacy than Apple (right?), so the same incentives would exist. > Even if there was, there is a prisoners dilemma - it would only work if many of them switched at once. Which would still be true with alternate stores. Nobody wants to be the first to switch to a shady store that customers don't trust and aban…

I’ve already explained why the incentives don’t exist in the Android store. Do you know what a paid exclusive is?

Paid exclusives cause other stores to be more popular. They don't cause other stores to be less restrictive, if that's what the users want, because having an exclusive on a garbage app the users don't want would fail to get anyone to use the store, and getting users to buy anything other than the non-garbage exclusive app from the other store is only done by getting the users to trust the store, by not having it be full of garbage apps.

Re: Modi government to set up app store alternative to Google Play, Apple App Store

#357

Post by AnthonyMouse »

zepto wrote: post #353
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As soon as Apple is constrained, everyone else who can impose requirements will do so. But that's precisely where the distinction matters -- there can be a hundred stores with onerous requirements, but if there is nothing requiring you to use any of them, you don't. It's obviously a problem if you're required to use a specific store instead of the one you want to, but that's the problem today -- it's the thing requ…

Do you trust Facebook?

Of course not, which is why I don't install their app and wouldn't use their store.

Re: Modi government to set up app store alternative to Google Play, Apple App Store

#358

Post by AnthonyMouse »

jolux wrote: post #344
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tor Browser is terrible for security [citation needed] The exit node can't do anything your ISP can't. Meanwhile you can choose the exit node, which you often can't for your ISP, which means you can choose one operated by someone you trust. And even if you don't, what are they going to do to a TLS connection? > and I don’t think Firefox started doing tracking prevention before Safari did Tor Browser is based on Fir…

>And even if you don't, what are they going to do to a TLS connection? You misunderstand me. Tor Browser is based on Firefox ESR, which means it lags with security updates: https://medium.com/@thegrugq/tor-and-its-discontents-ef51648... Tor itself is not what I was referring to, although it has its problems as well, mainly that it's extremely identifiable. Tor is not a good idea for most people to use full-time. The…

> You misunderstand me. Tor Browser is based on Firefox ESR, which means it lags with security updates: https://medium.com/@thegrugq/tor-and-its-discontents-ef51648...

The main point your link is making is that Tor Browser is purposely a monoculture to avoid fingerprinting and monocultures are bad for security because it gives attackers somewhere to concentrate their attacks. You're using this to argue in support of Safari as a monoculture on iOS?

Meanwhile, Tor Browser is based on Firefox ESR, but that doesn't mean they can't backport patches, which they regularly do.

> Tor itself is not what I was referring to, although it has its problems as well, mainly that it's extremely identifiable. Tor is not a good idea for most people to use full-time.

It's extremely identifiable as Tor, but that's exactly why most people should use it more of the time, so that it isn't regarded as suspicious when somebody has a more serious reason to.

Re: Modi government to set up app store alternative to Google Play, Apple App Store

#359

Post by zepto »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #356
zepto wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve already explained why the incentives don’t exist in the Android store. Do you know what a paid exclusive is?

Paid exclusives cause other stores to be more popular. They don't cause other stores to be less restrictive, if that's what the users want, because having an exclusive on a garbage app the users don't want would fail to get anyone to use the store, and getting users to buy anything other than the non-garbage exclusive app from the other store is only done by getting the users to trust the store, by not having it be f…

Do you trust Facebook?

Re: Modi government to set up app store alternative to Google Play, Apple App Store

#360

Post by zepto »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #357
zepto wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you trust Facebook?

Of course not, which is why I don't install their app and wouldn't use their store.

Neither do I but, there are 2.7 Billion monthly active users who trust them enough to use the service.

Do you think some of them would end up using the store?

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