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Joel Spolsky is doing an IAmA on reddit

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Re: Joel Spolsky is doing an IAmA on reddit

#31

Post by tomjen3 »

pclark wrote: post #27
chrisaycock wrote: post #25

Every time you feel like you've made the world better by upvoting a story about injustice, you're just making yourself feel smug. Forget the upvotes... go work on making the world a better place. He was writing about how stories of social injustice get a ton of upvotes, but nobody actually goes out and does anything to fix the situation. I'm sure there's a lesson here for HN.

Can anyone argue that the time spent upvoting a reddit story of injustice provides negative net value to the world?

I can, I think:

When you upvote a story on reddit about some issue you deeply care about, that tricks your brain into thinking that you have done something about it.

It is the same problem that announcing your goals makes you less likely to achieve them, because you already see yourself as a person who has accomplished that.

Re: Joel Spolsky is doing an IAmA on reddit

#32

Post by DavidChouinard »

tomjen3 wrote: post #31
pclark wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can anyone argue that the time spent upvoting a reddit story of injustice provides negative net value to the world?

I can, I think: When you upvote a story on reddit about some issue you deeply care about, that tricks your brain into thinking that you have done something about it. It is the same problem that announcing your goals makes you less likely to achieve them, because you already see yourself as a person who has accomplished that.

Related: http://www.ted.com/talks/derek_sivers_keep_your_goals_to_you... (one of Derek Sivers' TED talks)

Re: Joel Spolsky is doing an IAmA on reddit

#33

Post by pstack »

chrisaycock wrote: post #25

Every time you feel like you've made the world better by upvoting a story about injustice, you're just making yourself feel smug. Forget the upvotes... go work on making the world a better place. He was writing about how stories of social injustice get a ton of upvotes, but nobody actually goes out and does anything to fix the situation. I'm sure there's a lesson here for HN.

I don't have the time, energy, or resources to address every single social injustice or well intended cause. I might donate cash and possibly even time toward a cause after I have taken care of my job and mortgage and family and other immediate self-survival needs, but there are just too many causes that are worthy.

I can, however, give the slightest nod of support to promote countless causes that I may appreciate, but not be able to do anything about. Or I could smugly tell people how smug they are (believe me, I do that, too!).

Edit: Not that I don't agree there are far too many cause-whores out there who have stickers and shirts and web-buttons for a bunch of trendy causes that don't contribute toward anything in the world and that there aren't a ton of people who feel they directly had a part in the recent middle east uprisings, just because they followed activists in the thick of it, via Twitter.

Re: Joel Spolsky is doing an IAmA on reddit

#34

Post by warrenwilkinson »

chrisaycock wrote: post #25

Every time you feel like you've made the world better by upvoting a story about injustice, you're just making yourself feel smug. Forget the upvotes... go work on making the world a better place. He was writing about how stories of social injustice get a ton of upvotes, but nobody actually goes out and does anything to fix the situation. I'm sure there's a lesson here for HN.

I notice this in politics. Some people vote for charitable political parties, while they themselves never give to charity.

Re: Joel Spolsky is doing an IAmA on reddit

#35

Post by tedunangst »

euroclydon wrote: post #14
leon_ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but damn if I can find a way to use C as a web developer Write a web app in C? ;) But yeah, in most cases C won't improve your productivity as a web developer. But it will certainly make you understand the computer better. So maybe start a recreational project in C? A command line utility, a demon, a music streaming server - something not really web-dev related.

Listening to you, I'm thinking about just reading the C books and nothing more. If C's usefulness to non-C-programmers is simply that it gives them greater understanding of how computers work, then reading might suffice.

I don't think sufficient understanding of how computers work can come from just reading a book. If it could, you should read a book about how computers work, instead of trying to glean that through the lens of C programming. Understanding comes from doing.

Re: Joel Spolsky is doing an IAmA on reddit

#36

Post by haberman »

euroclydon wrote: post #21
jrockway wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, if you're a web developer, you probably use Perl, Python, Ruby, or some similar language. Guess what, these are written in C(+). When you need to add or fix a feature, guess what language you use? (+) Yes, yes, programming languages are not written in anything. Their implementations are. I know you know what I mean.

I hear you, but adding or fixing a feature in Python/Ruby/Perl doesn't ever come up for me. Does it for you? Plus, I understand that much of the standard libraries are written in the high level language.

See if you can find some bottleneck in one of your Python/Ruby/Perl apps that's chewing a lot of CPU time. See if you can devise a definition for a relatively simple function that if it was REALLY FAST would make this hot spot a lot more efficient. Then implement that function in C and expose it to the high level language.

It might not be a good idea to actually use your fast C function in production (if you're new at C you might have a security vulnerability in there, and there could be maintenance headaches). But you'll have learned a lot.

Re: Joel Spolsky is doing an IAmA on reddit

#37

Post by jswinghammer »

tedunangst wrote: post #35
euroclydon wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listening to you, I'm thinking about just reading the C books and nothing more. If C's usefulness to non-C-programmers is simply that it gives them greater understanding of how computers work, then reading might suffice.

I don't think sufficient understanding of how computers work can come from just reading a book. If it could, you should read a book about how computers work, instead of trying to glean that through the lens of C programming. Understanding comes from doing.

If you have read the K&R C book I am not sure you would say that. It's great no matter what you do with it.

Re: Joel Spolsky is doing an IAmA on reddit

#38

Post by Splines »

orijing wrote: post #29
euroclydon wrote: post #3

I really want to learn C, like he says. I get plenty done without knowing it, and I have few doubts I can continue to find decent work without knowing it, but I haven't been able to gain any traction when I try to learn it. I've got the books sitting front of me, and I've written some trivial visualizations of sorting algorithms using terminal output, but damn if I can find a way to use C as a web developer. If there…

You could try using C to solve some problems on Project Euler, or puzzles like Facebook Puzzles, or even past problems from Google Code Jams.

I found Project Euler and Topcoder to be easy ways to get into C (although nothing beats learning on the job).

Re: Joel Spolsky is doing an IAmA on reddit

#39

Post by tedunangst »

jswinghammer wrote: post #37
tedunangst wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think sufficient understanding of how computers work can come from just reading a book. If it could, you should read a book about how computers work, instead of trying to glean that through the lens of C programming. Understanding comes from doing.

If you have read the K&R C book I am not sure you would say that. It's great no matter what you do with it.

That's a bizarre thing to say. Do you think the K&R book is a great way to learn French?

Re: Joel Spolsky is doing an IAmA on reddit

#40

Post by pavlov »

warrenwilkinson wrote: post #34
chrisaycock wrote: post #25

Every time you feel like you've made the world better by upvoting a story about injustice, you're just making yourself feel smug. Forget the upvotes... go work on making the world a better place. He was writing about how stories of social injustice get a ton of upvotes, but nobody actually goes out and does anything to fix the situation. I'm sure there's a lesson here for HN.

I notice this in politics. Some people vote for charitable political parties, while they themselves never give to charity.

This actually makes sense in politics, because a successful party can exercise charity on your behalf using tax money.

It's the "Swedish model" -- there private charity is rare, but public welfare and development aid is generally accepted and supported by voters.

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