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Time to Pardon Edward Snowden?

infosecurity-magazine.com

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Re: Time to Pardon Edward Snowden?

#41

Post by cloverich »

LatteLazy wrote: post #15
ChicagoDave wrote: post #13

Snowden didn’t just expose national wiretapping. He also exposed international spying capabilities that endangered our people and our allies. If he had not crossed that second line, he’d just be a legitimate whistleblower, but he decided to actively harm the U.S. intelligence community and they will never allow a pardon. I’d lay odds if he ever steps foot in an unprotected setting, a slip on a banana peel and a fatal…

He couldn't expose one without the other could he?

I remember him specifically saying he thought spying on allies was wrong, and even a key component of his decision. Whether you agree this is the deciding point for crime / not crime, it is certainly a division between blowing whistle on domestic spying and everything else.

Re: Time to Pardon Edward Snowden?

#42

Post by lern_too_spel »

LatteLazy wrote: post #15
ChicagoDave wrote: post #13

Snowden didn’t just expose national wiretapping. He also exposed international spying capabilities that endangered our people and our allies. If he had not crossed that second line, he’d just be a legitimate whistleblower, but he decided to actively harm the U.S. intelligence community and they will never allow a pardon. I’d lay odds if he ever steps foot in an unprotected setting, a slip on a banana peel and a fatal…

He couldn't expose one without the other could he?

Why not? 99% of the things Greenwald et al published from his leaks were perfectly legal, and that was just a small subset of the total documents Snowden leaked. Why not just expose the illegal phone metadata program? If he had done that, he would easily qualify as a whistleblower.

Re: Time to Pardon Edward Snowden?

#43

Post by pydry »

georgeplusplus wrote: post #29
realjohng wrote: post #25

Edward Snowden is an American patriot. He followed his conscience and acted in good faith to defend the constitutional rights of the American people.

Disagree. I think he’s a tool of Russia and got paid to tarnish America and diplomacy worldwide.

"But after all, it’s the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it’s always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it’s a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them [you] they are being attacked [by Russia], and denounce the pacifists [Snowden] for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

- Herman Goering [with additions]

Nothing much changes.

Re: Time to Pardon Edward Snowden?

#45

Post by GekkePrutser »

jbay808 wrote: post #18
trident1000 wrote: post #3

The reason he will never be pardoned has nothing to do with if his leaks were merited or not merited (they clearly were as the activities of the govt were proven illegal). Its because then you green light a govt leaker in critical programs you open pandoras box for govt secrets spilling out and you can lose control. Keeping employees/contractors in fear that they will never stop chasing you is a good way to stop peop…

If you only "never stop chasing them" when they reveal legal activities, that mechanism still works fine, and still provides an important check against the government attempting to do illegal activities in secret, including rogue government agencies doing things that they aren't allowed to do by other branches of government. What if the CIA were wiretapping the president, or the supreme court? Well, that would be ill…

> What if the CIA were wiretapping the president, or the supreme court? Well, that would be illegal wouldn't it? Wouldn't you want a whistleblower to feel like they could safely expose it?

Yeah you're basically describing Watergate here. And I don't think anyone objected to that being made public. Well except for Nixon :D

IMO Whistleblowing has a place in society as a safeguard against the abuse of power.

Re: Time to Pardon Edward Snowden?

#46

Post by the-dude »

londons_explore wrote: post #34
georgeplusplus wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. I think he’s a tool of Russia and got paid to tarnish America and diplomacy worldwide.

Wouldn't he have flown straight to Moscow if that was his plan from the start?

The fact that he took a detour is only proof he is trying to hide his real masters. /s

Re: Time to Pardon Edward Snowden?

#47

Post by nip180 »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #44
realjohng wrote: post #25

Edward Snowden is an American patriot. He followed his conscience and acted in good faith to defend the constitutional rights of the American people.

And those of the rest of the world. Especially those of us in X eyes countries.

Hey may have defended the rights of people in the rest of the world, but only American citizens have rights protected by the US constitution.

Re: Time to Pardon Edward Snowden?

#48

Post by Supermancho »

justasking12345 wrote: post #4
Kednicma wrote: post #2

This administration won't do it, simply because Russia has more leverage over Snowden's cultural influence while he's unpardoned and in exile. The next administration won't do it, because Biden was in Obama's administration during Snowden's original actions. We need to examine the situation not from whether enough time has elapsed to make the wounds heal over, but from whether our government is ready to admit its pas…

How can you assume that next administration willn't be of Trump's but Biden's ?

It doesn't matter. That's the point being made. I think the sentiment that Biden (or any other Democrat) will not act because of some associated guilt or support of past Democrat decisions, idiotic. He will not get pardoned because the media (and public at large) don't think it's an issue that is more motivating than other hot-button issues. If there's enough public support, I would be more ready to believe the needle will move under a D than an R.

Re: Time to Pardon Edward Snowden?

#49

Post by GekkePrutser »

nip180 wrote: post #47
GekkePrutser wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And those of the rest of the world. Especially those of us in X eyes countries.

Hey may have defended the rights of people in the rest of the world, but only American citizens have rights protected by the US constitution.

Yes but some of the secrets he exposed implicated allies as well, for whom it is often just as illegal to spy on their own citizens.

Re: Time to Pardon Edward Snowden?

#50

Post by Supermancho »

jbay808 wrote: post #16
ChicagoDave wrote: post #13

Snowden didn’t just expose national wiretapping. He also exposed international spying capabilities that endangered our people and our allies. If he had not crossed that second line, he’d just be a legitimate whistleblower, but he decided to actively harm the U.S. intelligence community and they will never allow a pardon. I’d lay odds if he ever steps foot in an unprotected setting, a slip on a banana peel and a fatal…

International spying on your allies , including corporate espionage against countries like Germany. That angered your allies much more than it endangered them. Whistleblowers like Snowden are the mechanism that keeps that spying from happening in the first place. Edit -- And yes, this harmed America by undermining the trust that those countries had in it. But to be clear, it wasn't Snowden's disclosure that broke tha…

> International spying on your allies, including corporate espionage against countries like Germany.

I expect the US to be spying on ALL nations, not just enemy-of-the-week or communist ones.

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