Time to Pardon Edward Snowden? • Hacker News Board

Re: Time to Pardon Edward Snowden?

#31

Post by chiefalchemist » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 5:13 PM UTC

HashingtheCode wrote: post #5

If Assange isn't being pardoned for the nonsensical "crime" of exposing war crimes by the US Government, there is no chance that Snowden will be pardoned. Snowden willingly stole state secrets whereas Assange only published. Still, when you consider that Snowden is living in Russia, essentially free, and Assange is in a 3.5x2m cell, I don't think Snowden has anything to worry about, except that the royalties from his…

As I understand it, the USA isn't after Assange for publishing, mainly because other (friends of the state?) entities have done similar (e.g., NY Times). Assange is being charged with conspiracy to steal said secrets. That is, he was a participant in the "theft." Uncle Sans case isn't focused on the publishing.

Again, as I understand it (which I believe is based on other comments from previous threads on HN).

Re: Time to Pardon Edward Snowden?

#32

Post by chrisco255 » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 5:13 PM UTC

georgeplusplus wrote: post #29

realjohng wrote: post #25

Edward Snowden is an American patriot. He followed his conscience and acted in good faith to defend the constitutional rights of the American people.

Disagree. I think he’s a tool of Russia and got paid to tarnish America and diplomacy worldwide.

He simply tarnished certain federal bureaucracies, not America at large.

Re: Time to Pardon Edward Snowden?

#33

Post by ahelwer » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 5:14 PM UTC

georgeplusplus wrote: post #29

realjohng wrote: post #25

Edward Snowden is an American patriot. He followed his conscience and acted in good faith to defend the constitutional rights of the American people.

Disagree. I think he’s a tool of Russia and got paid to tarnish America and diplomacy worldwide.

If the reality of what we are doing to our citizens tarnishes our reputation, then we shouldn't be doing it.

Re: Time to Pardon Edward Snowden?

#34

Post by londons_explore » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 5:16 PM UTC

georgeplusplus wrote: post #29

realjohng wrote: post #25

Edward Snowden is an American patriot. He followed his conscience and acted in good faith to defend the constitutional rights of the American people.

Disagree. I think he’s a tool of Russia and got paid to tarnish America and diplomacy worldwide.

Wouldn't he have flown straight to Moscow if that was his plan from the start?

Re: Time to Pardon Edward Snowden?

#35

Post by pengaru » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 5:18 PM UTC

georgeplusplus wrote: post #29

realjohng wrote: post #25

Edward Snowden is an American patriot. He followed his conscience and acted in good faith to defend the constitutional rights of the American people.

Disagree. I think he’s a tool of Russia and got paid to tarnish America and diplomacy worldwide.

It sounds like you're confusing Assange and Snowden.

Re: Time to Pardon Edward Snowden?

#36

Post by yupyup54133 » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 5:18 PM UTC

cirno wrote: post #26

ChicagoDave wrote: post #13

Snowden didn’t just expose national wiretapping. He also exposed international spying capabilities that endangered our people and our allies. If he had not crossed that second line, he’d just be a legitimate whistleblower, but he decided to actively harm the U.S. intelligence community and they will never allow a pardon. I’d lay odds if he ever steps foot in an unprotected setting, a slip on a banana peel and a fatal…

> I’m as liberal as it gets and even I think he went too far. Apparently you're not because I couldn't disagree more.

I was just going to say the same thing.

Re: Time to Pardon Edward Snowden?

#37

Post by OkGoDoIt » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 5:20 PM UTC

georgeplusplus wrote: post #29

realjohng wrote: post #25

Edward Snowden is an American patriot. He followed his conscience and acted in good faith to defend the constitutional rights of the American people.

Disagree. I think he’s a tool of Russia and got paid to tarnish America and diplomacy worldwide.

The American government tarnished itself, Snowden just revealed it to us all (at great personal sacrifice). I consider him a patriot.

Re: Time to Pardon Edward Snowden?

#38

Post by 082349872349872 » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 5:26 PM UTC

Kednicma wrote: post #2

This administration won't do it, simply because Russia has more leverage over Snowden's cultural influence while he's unpardoned and in exile. The next administration won't do it, because Biden was in Obama's administration during Snowden's original actions. We need to examine the situation not from whether enough time has elapsed to make the wounds heal over, but from whether our government is ready to admit its pas…

One of the rationales for the Ministry of Truth in 1984 was that the government could always do the right thing: as soon as it learned, it needn't take the difficult step of admitting past mistakes, but could instead merely correct them.

Re: Time to Pardon Edward Snowden?

#39

Post by jbay808 » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 5:26 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #22

jbay808 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

International spying on your allies , including corporate espionage against countries like Germany. That angered your allies much more than it endangered them. Whistleblowers like Snowden are the mechanism that keeps that spying from happening in the first place. Edit -- And yes, this harmed America by undermining the trust that those countries had in it. But to be clear, it wasn't Snowden's disclosure that broke tha…

I feel like people forget that leading up to the Iraq war, France and Germany were aligned with Russia and very much against US interests. They were a frenemy at best. I'm not saying it's right - we were in the wrong on Iraq and that was obvious before it started. But just like the US has had a HARD turn towards fascism, there's nothing stopping that from occurring to our allies as well. I'd argue it's dereliction of…

I'm curious about what interpretation of events leads you to the conclusion that, say, France was aligned against US interests? What about Canada?

Edit: And it's one thing (not necessarily a great thing) if you and your allies are knowingly and willingly exchanging intelligence about suspicious activities you pick up in each other's countries to tip off law enforcement. Exfiltrating corporate industrial and technological secrets is a different matter and there's no way an allied government would be OK with that happening, even as an under-the-table arrangement.

Re: Time to Pardon Edward Snowden?

#40

Post by lern_too_spel » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

handelaar wrote: post #27

slg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it wasn't just our allies. Snowden revealed details about NSA spying on Syria during their civil war. That is the exact type of thing that our spy agencies should be doing. If you object to that, you object to the entire nature of intelligence gathering. That is a perfectly acceptable stance to have, but it obviously isn't one that is held by the US's or most nation's government and therefore they wouldn't want t…

If you actually believe it was news that the NSA is intercepting signals from and in Syria, I may have a bridge for sale you'd be interested in.

How about a list of compromised Chinese telecommunications systems? It's not surprising that the NSA would infiltrate those systems in order to complete some of its objectives, but the list of which systems were compromised when is sensitive information that Snowden leaked right after revealing he was in Hong Kong in a misguided attempt to gain asylum there.