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Actively speaking two languages protects against cognitive impairment

uoc.edu

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Re: Actively speaking two languages protects against cognitive impairment

#131

Post by wazoox »

personlurking wrote: post #89
torben-friis wrote: post #53

This might be me being overly cautious here, but I would be wary of the political implications of the study. It's from an open University that's a project for lifelong learning funded as a public service in Catalonia - promoting the catalan language in the region is a key point of the project, so studies finding out that bilingualism is something great to have raise red flags about the nationalist agenda behind it. T…

As an aside, here's a breakdown of who speaks Catalan vs Spanish, in Catalonia, as of 2018: https://www.idescat.cat/novetats/?id=3446&lang=en The quick version, in a single image, with the lightest area being the region of Barcelona: https://i.imgur.com/tPiOuiz.png

Weird to call it "Spanish". Catalan is also "Spanish" (though you'll find a very small number of speakers in Southern France). Usually Catalan is opposed to Castilian.

Re: Actively speaking two languages protects against cognitive impairment

#132

Post by anon4242 »

majkinetor wrote: post #93
jay_kyburz wrote: post #78

Do you think Python and JavaScript Count?

I am sure that everything counts. Scientists like to measure natural language against dementia probably because its easier to do then some other form of knowledge (like being good in multiple disciplines). From the practical standpoint, learning more then 1 one language doesn't make any sense - practical value you get from it is next to 0 compared to for example learning medicine, electronics, IT, math etc. Especiall…

> [...] practical value you get from it is next to 0 compared to for example learning medicine, electronics, IT, math etc.

Source missing. Seriously though, you sound very certain of your claim so let me at least offer a counterpoint, however anecdotal.

I've had tons of practical value out of some of my language skills. I would not have the career I have today if I hadn't learned English as a second language. Admittedly my third language, German, was a bust, but I blame the way schools teach language for that (grammar, grammar, grammar). My fourth language, Thai, OTOH was a great investment not only because it made it possible for me to be self-sufficient and socialize (and make friends) while living in Thailand, it also was so different from the previous languages I knew that I could feel my mind expanding. Finally, I've also cracked my head at (Mandarin) Chinese but in that case the practical value has been much closer to 0 but it at least made it possible for me to travel around China on my own, which was well worth it at the time for me.

Re: Actively speaking two languages protects against cognitive impairment

#133

Post by marcan_42 »

wazoox wrote: post #131
personlurking wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an aside, here's a breakdown of who speaks Catalan vs Spanish, in Catalonia, as of 2018: https://www.idescat.cat/novetats/?id=3446&lang=en The quick version, in a single image, with the lightest area being the region of Barcelona: https://i.imgur.com/tPiOuiz.png

Weird to call it "Spanish". Catalan is also "Spanish" (though you'll find a very small number of speakers in Southern France). Usually Catalan is opposed to Castilian.

The common term for the language we're talking about here is Spanish (in the English language), which is a distinct language from Catalan. Catalan may originate in Spain (and thus could be called Spanish-the-adjective, though that doesn't seem terribly useful conversationally), but it is most definitely not a dialect of Spanish-the-language.

Castilian Spanish, when used in English, is often used to denote the dialects spoken in Spain, as opposed to the dialects spoken in Latin America. This is not the topic at hand here, so there isn't much point in calling it Castilian (especially since many English speakers would not be familiar with that term) over Spanish.

Re: Actively speaking two languages protects against cognitive impairment

#134

Post by ptato »

wazoox wrote: post #131
personlurking wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an aside, here's a breakdown of who speaks Catalan vs Spanish, in Catalonia, as of 2018: https://www.idescat.cat/novetats/?id=3446&lang=en The quick version, in a single image, with the lightest area being the region of Barcelona: https://i.imgur.com/tPiOuiz.png

Weird to call it "Spanish". Catalan is also "Spanish" (though you'll find a very small number of speakers in Southern France). Usually Catalan is opposed to Castilian.

Spanish /ˈspanɪʃ/

adjective

    relating to Spain, its people, or its language.
noun

    1. the people of Spain.
    2. a Romance language spoken in Spain and in much of Central and South America.

Re: Actively speaking two languages protects against cognitive impairment

#135

Post by vmception »

torben-friis wrote: post #53

This might be me being overly cautious here, but I would be wary of the political implications of the study. It's from an open University that's a project for lifelong learning funded as a public service in Catalonia - promoting the catalan language in the region is a key point of the project, so studies finding out that bilingualism is something great to have raise red flags about the nationalist agenda behind it. T…

Which could just as easily be a congratulations on the world creating the convoluted incentives to research this

Re: Actively speaking two languages protects against cognitive impairment

#136

Post by blackbrokkoli »

This is pseudo-science. Please refrain from upvoting.

You cannot prove (or imply) causation via observation. The only method we know to find causation is by setting up an experiment. This study however merely measures variables in a pre-existing context, without injecting independent variables. The only valid result you may extract from this is a correlation, never causation.

Please edit the title to reflect correlation or (IMO preferred) delete the submission, because such bad science surely does not pass the quality barrier of HN.

Re: Actively speaking two languages protects against cognitive impairment

#137

Post by blackbrokkoli »

diqwndwqiond wrote: post #2

Is it correlation or causation tho?

You can't get causation from an observation study.

You can however get a lot of attention for "finding" a causation.

So to answer your question, it's quacks selling correlation as causation.

Re: Actively speaking two languages protects against cognitive impairment

#138

Post by 082349872349872 »

fit2rule wrote: post #119
torben-friis wrote: post #53

This might be me being overly cautious here, but I would be wary of the political implications of the study. It's from an open University that's a project for lifelong learning funded as a public service in Catalonia - promoting the catalan language in the region is a key point of the project, so studies finding out that bilingualism is something great to have raise red flags about the nationalist agenda behind it. T…

By the same token, anyone claiming that this must be agitprop designed to promote a political agenda, is promoting their own agenda of nationalism. Vielleicht sind die zweisprachigen Sprecher jedoch besser darauf vorbereitet, die Wahrheit zu finden: Sprache ist Politik - Es wird besser, je mehr Sie es verwenden.

Ganz meine Meinung. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23858477

> "The facts—man, happening, amount, place, time—are true in each case. They could be sworn to by the whole membership of an interfaith conference. But the interpretation placed on them—who communicates these facts to whom? why? when?—makes them into propaganda."

Re: Actively speaking two languages protects against cognitive impairment

#139

Post by 082349872349872 »

tus88 wrote: post #106

Who gets the opportunity to do that if you are living in a native tongue land?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_diglossic_regions

I wonder if actively used bureaucratese is far enough from Standard English to count as second lect? "In view of the somewhat nebulous and inexplicit nature of your remit, and the arguably marginal and peripheral nature of your influence within the central deliberations and decisions within the political process, there could be a case for restructuring their action priorities in such a way as to eliminate your liquidation from their immediate agenda."

Bonus clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0j2dVuhr6s&t=60

Re: Actively speaking two languages protects against cognitive impairment

#140

Post by thesz »

I keep saying that brain grows (BDNF, brain-derived neurotrophic factor is released into blood) when body encounter evolutionary familiar stress - hunger, need for endurance and need for force exertion. Basically, brain was made for body to experience less of that stress.

As an example of what BDNF does: endurance exercise is known for elevating serum BDNF levels long-term [1] and endurance exercise has been shown to help with Parkinsons' [2].

Thus, can it be that these speaking two languages experience more of that stresses thorough their life? The article does not suggest that these factors were, well, factored out.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6613032/

[2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28870627/

PS

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260394068_Long_term... - they suggest that habitual exercise does not produce more BDNF or it is not BDNF that acts on the brain, I counter that body utilizes it better, just like glucose in blood.

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