Modi government to set up app store alternative to Google Play, Apple App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Modi government to set up app store alternative to Google Play, Apple App Store

#331

Post by tinus_hn » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 12:56 PM UTC

m-p-3 wrote: post #168

simonh wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WeChat mini-programs don't actually run as native code on the phone though. They're much more like web apps running on the WeChat back end, with WecChat acting as a browser to access them. Roblox does a similar thing, with interactive games from third parties running on the Roblox servers in the virtual environment. A third party app store where you install native code apps on the phone, directly accessing phone OS s…

The same thing could be said of game streaming apps like Stadia (all the game code is running remotely) but are forbidden in the App Store. It's hard to take Apple seriously when they do shit like this.

You are supposed to have Apple approve all these games/apps before launch. But of course that kind of restriction does not apply to an app that basically is a requirement for a phone in a desired market like China.

Re: Modi government to set up app store alternative to Google Play, Apple App Store

#332

Post by fakedang » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 1:00 PM UTC

puranjay wrote: post #324

fakedang wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha no. The Indian government will have the best interests of the ruling party at heart. I'd rather trust Google with all of my data, even the sensitive bits, rather than give even an iota to the government. And yes, I know how disgusting that sounds. In the Delhi riots early this year, the government used data gathered from the national database to track and arrest protesters. Imagine what they could do if they cou…

If you're a tech entrepreneur, this should worry you regardless. Any industry that the Indian government meddles in eventually gets regulated to death. You have to pay bribes for X or Y license or permission. The tech industry thrived precisely because there is little regulation. If your apps have to go through the Indian government to be published, be prepared to pay bribes to pass through the regulatory hurdles and…

The fact that you mentioned "paperwork" for an app store application sums up exactly how this whole mess will turn out. :)

This Indian government has certainly reduced regulations and compliance - if you're in the B club. I have a distant grand uncle and an uncle both in the B club. They were essentially waved through to set up shop in UP - even though they're Muslim, openly religious and practicing, and have literally been photographed very often inviting Rahul Gandhi and other Congress leaders to their homes right before elections.

Money talks. I mentioned in another comment on HN, that if you are in the B club, you're likely the one ordering the gangsters in the government.

Re: Modi government to set up app store alternative to Google Play, Apple App Store

#333

Post by ben_w » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 1:26 PM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #283

ben_w wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may be smart and wise and know how to avoid dodgy apps, but can you trust everyone you want to have a private chat online with to not unwittingly install a screen recorder? And differently from PCs, can you trust everyone you chat with in real life to not unwittingly install an app that turns on the microphone and/or camera? Don’t get me wrong — I want there to be 3rd party app stores, even if only because of the…

I think it's reasonable for Apple to make it difficult for shady third-parties to get you to install their malware-ridden app store, but I don't agree that the only way to keep users safe is to disallow any third-party app installs entirely. Apple just currently has little incentive to do the former, because a) it's more difficult, b) they have a financial benefit to keeping everyone in their own app store. Given tha…

> I don't agree that the only way to keep users safe is to disallow any third-party app installs entirely.

I’m not saying that, I’m saying “be careful”.

Re: Modi government to set up app store alternative to Google Play, Apple App Store

#334

Post by akshaybhalotia » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 2:27 PM UTC

parasubvert wrote: post #219

rishav_sharan wrote: post #163

Far too many optimistic voices here and that scares me. I don't see this app store being about providing alternatives. that's just a talking point. This app store is all about forcing every android sold in India to have a system installed govt driven app, which will report back to the govt on tons of private information about the device and owner. Information that Indian govt will be too incompetent to keep safe and…

If you read the subtext of the other Epic v. Apple threads, this is the point: government is somehow going to do a better job than Apple or Google. That or government will mandate the Libertarian Wild West on our phones where anyone can install anything from any store. Mobile operators alone will balk at that. This is a fever dream from a new generation of publishers and developers that have to learn how this worked…

A government that knows what it is doing may do a better job at it.

So let me put in decreasing order of who will do a good job according to what is good for the users:

- government that knows what it is doing

- government

- authoritarian government

- authoritarian government that knows what it is doing

Re: Modi government to set up app store alternative to Google Play, Apple App Store

#335

Post by puranjay » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 2:54 PM UTC

fakedang wrote: post #332

puranjay wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a tech entrepreneur, this should worry you regardless. Any industry that the Indian government meddles in eventually gets regulated to death. You have to pay bribes for X or Y license or permission. The tech industry thrived precisely because there is little regulation. If your apps have to go through the Indian government to be published, be prepared to pay bribes to pass through the regulatory hurdles and…

The fact that you mentioned "paperwork" for an app store application sums up exactly how this whole mess will turn out. :) This Indian government has certainly reduced regulations and compliance - if you're in the B club. I have a distant grand uncle and an uncle both in the B club. They were essentially waved through to set up shop in UP - even though they're Muslim, openly religious and practicing, and have literal…

I run a very small online business incorporated as a Pvt Ltd. There is more paperwork now than ever with GST. What's worse is that the regulations keep changing every few months. Tax rates change, deadlines change, exemption limits change. One of the most flawed and confusing taxes I've ever had the displeasure of dealing with.

Re: Modi government to set up app store alternative to Google Play, Apple App Store

#336

Post by what_ever » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 2:54 PM UTC

devdas wrote: post #181

actuator wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am just puzzled about one bit of this, why the hue and cry few days back about this. Don't Android App stores like the Amazon one already exist? What's stopping these devs to even distribute the apps themselves? iOS is a different matter but Android has always allowed this. Not sure if they exist in India, but I have seen Android phones come with non Google App Store as well.

This enables tax revenues for the Indian government.

Pretty sure they are already getting tax money from the existing app stores. Do you have any source that they don't?

Re: Modi government to set up app store alternative to Google Play, Apple App Store

#337

Post by AnthonyMouse » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 3:05 PM UTC

jolux wrote: post #311

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because of all the browsers they have led the way in reducing the ability for advertisers to track you. Certainly when compared to Chrome, but Firefox? Brave? Tor Browser? No. Which is why it's so unfortunate that you can't get a real third party browser for iOS.

Tor Browser is terrible for security, and I don’t think Firefox started doing tracking prevention before Safari did. I may have the timeline wrong though. As for Brave, well. They have a different business model but I’m not entirely clear on what their technological innovation is?

> Tor Browser is terrible for security

[citation needed]

The exit node can't do anything your ISP can't. Meanwhile you can choose the exit node, which you often can't for your ISP, which means you can choose one operated by someone you trust.

And even if you don't, what are they going to do to a TLS connection?

> and I don’t think Firefox started doing tracking prevention before Safari did

Tor Browser is based on Firefox, so the anti-fingerprinting work they do regularly gets merged back into Firefox proper. Moreover, Firefox has had some of the best anti-tracking addons since forever, but you can only have those if you actually have Firefox.

But Tor Browser is still more stringent about certain things, e.g. they always reset the window to a standard size when you open it so the page can't track you based on that, which Firefox itself doesn't do because it's kind of annoying to the user. Which is another reason why there is benefit in having multiple browsers -- they each have different trade offs.

> They have a different business model but I’m not entirely clear on what their technological innovation is?

They do a lot of good work on ad blocking, and are willing to be a lot more aggressive about it, since it aligns directly with their incentives.

Re: Modi government to set up app store alternative to Google Play, Apple App Store

#338

Post by approxim8ion » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 3:07 PM UTC

dannyw wrote: post #127

aero-glide wrote: post #30

Those who want open source apps on their phones should checkout f-droid

F-droid is a political app store.

There are no app-stores that are apolitical, that I know of at least. If they are opinionated in setting up barriers of entry for applications, it is a political decision. Even F-Droid choosing to be open-source only, is a political decision.

Re: Modi government to set up app store alternative to Google Play, Apple App Store

#339

Post by approxim8ion » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 3:10 PM UTC

arebhaibhai wrote: post #116

amitheonlyone wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really don't have to control though. Information itself is enough in the most part. As you said, Google already knows, but it has it's own procedure in fulfilling government requests. With the information directly in the hands of the government, that barrier is gone.

I know and that's what I think is better, at least for now. I know how to remove something a govt puts in phone but I can't use a lot of apps without Google Play services, which is a bigger issue for me. You turn on a VPN an govt is out but Google, gosh, it's everywhere.

I'm not sure if "you turn on a VPN and govt is out" is an accurate representation though, considering not all VPNs also resolve DNS requests, and a number of ISPs resort to deep-packet inspection and a number of tactics that would let them collect information on users. It's a matter of agreement, compliance, or force for the government to get their hands on that data.

But I definitely agree on the point about Google Play Services. For a platform that is often touted as being open, Android isn't quite Android without Play Services, and that wouldn't be the case if Google wasn't systematically ensuring that specific outcome.

Re: Modi government to set up app store alternative to Google Play, Apple App Store

#340

Post by AnthonyMouse » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 3:11 PM UTC

zepto wrote: post #319

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem with open devices is that at some point someone is going to undercut you by providing a "free" product and then we're back in square one of trading user data Except that the stores have to compete with each other, so who is going to choose the one with all the apps that trade user data? Certainly not the users who are allegedly patronizing Apple only because they don't want that. > and in the process yo…

“Except that the stores have to compete with each other, so who is going to choose the one with all the apps that trade user data? Certainly not the users who are allegedly patronizing Apple only because they don't want that.” They will when many of the key apps are only available through the privacy agnostic stores.

How are the "key apps" going to move there when the users refuse to install apps from there? If it was so easy, why don't all the "key apps" do this already and stop using Apple's store so that everybody has to switch to Android?