How to get a job at a startup if you aren’t a developer • Hacker News Board

Re: How to get a job at a startup if you aren’t a developer

#11

Post by estromberg » Wed, Apr 20, 2011, 6:31 PM UTC

acconrad wrote: post #9

If you're not a developer, you should still learn how to code. At least showing that you're willing to learn goes a long way so you can help with even the little things, such as fixing pixels or checking in small bugs. Think of it another way: would you join a renewable energy startup if you didn't know some engineering (materials, chemistry, mechanical, electrical, et al) fundamentals? How do you think you would do…

I generally agree with this. Especially if you have plans to be a founder. Though there is an opportunity cost of learning anything, right? Would the time spent learning to code be better spent learning a different skill that would be more directly applicable to the job you are seeking? I think in some cases, yes.

Re: How to get a job at a startup if you aren’t a developer

#12

Post by ke » Wed, Apr 20, 2011, 6:34 PM UTC

acconrad wrote: post #9

If you're not a developer, you should still learn how to code. At least showing that you're willing to learn goes a long way so you can help with even the little things, such as fixing pixels or checking in small bugs. Think of it another way: would you join a renewable energy startup if you didn't know some engineering (materials, chemistry, mechanical, electrical, et al) fundamentals? How do you think you would do…

Absolutely, HTML/CSS is a huge step in the right direction.

Re: How to get a job at a startup if you aren’t a developer

#13

Post by pavel_lishin » Wed, Apr 20, 2011, 6:41 PM UTC

gersh wrote: post #10

A non-developer needs to have some skill, which can't be automated by a computer. Such things include: design, writing, managing people, talking to customers, investors, money and relationships. If AI becomes capable of automating such tasks, their job may become obsolete.

> If AI becomes capable of automating such tasks, their job may become obsolete.

And factory automation and robotics have eliminated the needs for workers, yup.

Re: How to get a job at a startup if you aren’t a developer

#14

Post by stevenj » Wed, Apr 20, 2011, 6:45 PM UTC

acconrad wrote: post #9

If you're not a developer, you should still learn how to code. At least showing that you're willing to learn goes a long way so you can help with even the little things, such as fixing pixels or checking in small bugs. Think of it another way: would you join a renewable energy startup if you didn't know some engineering (materials, chemistry, mechanical, electrical, et al) fundamentals? How do you think you would do…

Should developers learn how to do customer service? Sales? Biz Dev? Design? HR?

Re: How to get a job at a startup if you aren’t a developer

#15

Post by prpatel » Wed, Apr 20, 2011, 6:46 PM UTC

1) Learn how to code 2) ..... 3) Profit!

Re: How to get a job at a startup if you aren’t a developer

#16

Post by aridiculous » Wed, Apr 20, 2011, 6:49 PM UTC

I had to learn most of this stuff on my own, but it's a very good summary to pass on to my friends. Seems like startups are getting more and more mainstream.

The problem is most college grads in non-technical fields generally don't have skills beyond being smart, maybe. I was one of them. This wouldn't be too much of an issue but most also don't like or aren't any good at selling. The way I see it, you have to do something technically tangible or you have the sell the lights out of stuff. If you can't do either, sad to say, you're fairly worthless in early stage companies.

Re: How to get a job at a startup if you aren’t a developer

#17

Post by edw519 » Wed, Apr 20, 2011, 6:50 PM UTC

I know OP means well, but this is some of the most misguided advice I've ever seen on Hacker News...

1. Know the tech landscape better than anybody else

This is like saying, "Know God" or "Know the meaning of life". You'll be chasing down something elusive and nebulous while the rest of us are learning, building, and growing.

Also, you will never know anything better than anybody else, so just get that self-defeating thought out of your head.

2. Form an opinion and start a blog

If you've been there and done that, please share your experience. We're eager to hear about it. Otherwise, you should be listening, not talking. There are enough worthless blogs out there. Please don't add another one.

3. Be familiar with the startup culture - Each sport, industry, or college has a unique culture, with its own lingo, success stories, and taboos. Startup culture is no different.

2 things you can do with 4 possible scenarios:

a. Build stuff that delivers long term value to others and can sustain itself as a business

b. "fit in"

  - If you do both a. and b., great.
  - If you do a. and not b., no one will care that b. is missing.
  - If you do b. and not a., you're adding little or no value.
  - If you do neither a. or b., you're adding little or no value.

In other words "culture", "lingo", "success stories", "taboos", are all non-issues. Bullshit. They don't matter.

In the end, all that really matters (with rare exceptions) is a.

You can skip #3.

I’d also recommend hanging out on tech-heavy communities like Hacker News or Reddit. Observe how people interact. Pay close attention to which articles and comments get voted up or down. It will go a long way in figuring out what the startup culture sees as valuable. Decide if these values mesh with what you see as important.

Please don't do this. All you will learn is how a crowd behaves, which may or may not have anything to do with what really matters.

If you want to come to Hacker News to lurk and learn, welcome! But don't get caught up in what "the world thinks". This is a great recipe for the community to experience eternal September and for you to become just another poser.

4. Offer a concrete skill

99% of the work in a start-up is either building or selling & implementing. If you can do either well, great. If you can't, then learn how and forget all the rest of the bullshit in this post.

5. Take an internship

Good advice, actually, for #4 above.

6. Send cold emails

Please don't. Anywhere else that's called spam.

Re: How to get a job at a startup if you aren’t a developer

#18

Post by 18pfsmt » Wed, Apr 20, 2011, 6:51 PM UTC

jsavimbi wrote: post #8

pavel_lishin wrote: post #2

I imagine this his how non-devs feel when reading a lot of articles here. I have absolutely no idea what non-developers do at startups, and if I were having a dream where I was suddenly hired on in this position, it would feel like your average "showed up to class with no pants for final you didn't study for" nightmare.

"I have absolutely no idea what non-developers do at startups" Disclaimer: developer at technology companies. Well, they'd better know how to sell, and sell well, if they want to get a job in a lean business that simply doesn't have room for people who aren't contributing directly to the bottom line. Another position is that of business development. Soft skill, but really necessary to provide pre and post sales suppo…

The last VC-backed startup I worked at, the marketing people were 3 Harvard MBAs that kept the sales people away from the developers, and they helped us figure out what product features were most relevant to implement. They also got us the latest and greatest sample ASICs.

Re: How to get a job at a startup if you aren’t a developer

#19

Post by ismarc » Wed, Apr 20, 2011, 7:01 PM UTC

stevenj wrote: post #14

acconrad wrote: post #9

If you're not a developer, you should still learn how to code. At least showing that you're willing to learn goes a long way so you can help with even the little things, such as fixing pixels or checking in small bugs. Think of it another way: would you join a renewable energy startup if you didn't know some engineering (materials, chemistry, mechanical, electrical, et al) fundamentals? How do you think you would do…

Should developers learn how to do customer service? Sales? Biz Dev? Design? HR?

Absolutely to all of the above. A developer's job is to determine what's actually wanted/needed, not what is exactly enumerated, especially in a startup. In addition, if a job needs done, a job needs done. A developer who can hop on a sales call, or do customer support when needed is invaluable in an startup environment.

Re: How to get a job at a startup if you aren’t a developer

#20

Post by aridiculous » Wed, Apr 20, 2011, 7:03 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #17

I know OP means well, but this is some of the most misguided advice I've ever seen on Hacker News... 1. Know the tech landscape better than anybody else This is like saying, "Know God" or "Know the meaning of life". You'll be chasing down something elusive and nebulous while the rest of us are learning, building, and growing. Also, you will never know anything better than anybody else, so just get that self-defeating…

I agree with a couple of your points but I think you might be overreacting.

When the OP said to hang out at HN or learn all about the culture, that's really helpful for those who are completely unfamiliar with the whole industry. A lot of smart kids have never entered this world and it's a good primer. Just because they are new to startups doesn't make them hopeless -- I arrived a couple years ago and spent a few months just getting acquainted through tireless immersion.

Cold emails are fine, if they have an edge to them and are informed and targeted. If you get emails from people who clearly put there heart into writing it, I think it's at least worth a quick reply. You're not a celebrity.

And how else do you expect someone to get into the industry without some cold emails or calls? As someone who just got their foot in the door, I can definitively say one works at least twice as hard outside the industry than when one gets a job. Have some respect for that nonpaid effort, I say.

That said, one should always be building up a defined skillset concurrently.