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Paul Stamets on the interrelationship among mushrooms, consciousness, and nature

nautil.us

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Re: Paul Stamets on the interrelationship among mushrooms, consciousness, and nature

#41

Post by jatgoodwin »

The problem with psychedelics is they only make you "more" of what you are. It's the spotlighting effect multiplied. Especially when "bad" people take them they just become even more of an asshole, or dare I say when stupid people take them they just revel in the intoxication.

You just have to read the old research literature on LSD like stuff from James Fadiman to understand that these are extremely dangerous substances that can cause trauma and other serious psychological problems if not used extremely specifically and carefully. If a subject is carefully prepared and trained in the weeks leading up to a trip, then carefully guided through by a psychologist in a 3 day process, then psychedelics have been proven in studies to be used to solve problems effectively. This isn't something you can do on your own.

It's this bizarre problem of we've been lied to for so long about the dangers of these drugs that the actual dangers get buried and nobody talks about the very real possibility of having PTSD flashbacks for the rest of your life to a moment when you were tripping then you start tripping again and have to run for your serquel.

Re: Paul Stamets on the interrelationship among mushrooms, consciousness, and nature

#42

Post by humbleMouse »

jatgoodwin wrote: post #41

The problem with psychedelics is they only make you "more" of what you are. It's the spotlighting effect multiplied. Especially when "bad" people take them they just become even more of an asshole, or dare I say when stupid people take them they just revel in the intoxication. You just have to read the old research literature on LSD like stuff from James Fadiman to understand that these are extremely dangerous substa…

“This isn’t something you can do on your own”

I’m gonna have to push back here. Go rent a cabin in the woods and eat some mushrooms and I guarantee you can work thru issues on your own.

Re: Paul Stamets on the interrelationship among mushrooms, consciousness, and nature

#43

Post by spaetzleesser »

I am all for legalization but this stuffs sound exactly like what was written a few years about Marijuana. There were tons of articles about how Marijuana use will do things like saving the environment, saves the rain forest, cure cancer and so on. For some reason like to overshoot with this predictions of the benefits of these things. In the end our capitalist world will probably prevail and whatever expansion of consciousness happens will be at the surface level.

Re: Paul Stamets on the interrelationship among mushrooms, consciousness, and nature

#45

Post by netcan »

jatgoodwin wrote: post #41

The problem with psychedelics is they only make you "more" of what you are. It's the spotlighting effect multiplied. Especially when "bad" people take them they just become even more of an asshole, or dare I say when stupid people take them they just revel in the intoxication. You just have to read the old research literature on LSD like stuff from James Fadiman to understand that these are extremely dangerous substa…

As you say, there are risks and benefits. "How" matters a lot.

I think you exaggerate though. A lot of the risk is down to extremely irresponsible use... many steps removed from the high level of medical supervision you laid out.

The basics are some mental preparation, a trip sitter, correct dosage and a proper set. I don't consider psychologists the only or necessarily best guides.

Like all drugs (including alcohol), they can interact with preexisting susceptibilities to mental illness. Being an experience, it can also cause trauma. So can non drug experiences, like rock climbing. Dosage, set, setting & preparation mitigate these a lot.

Psychedelics are not a danger free activity, but like most dangerous activities most of the irl dangers are from ignoring safety entirety. FWIW, I think the more normalised, discussed and non judgemental psychodelic drug culture becomes, the more responsible users tend to be.

..And for comparison, it's a lot safer than many sports and hobbies.

Re: Paul Stamets on the interrelationship among mushrooms, consciousness, and nature

#46

Post by ScouterRich »

humbleMouse wrote: post #42
jatgoodwin wrote: post #41

The problem with psychedelics is they only make you "more" of what you are. It's the spotlighting effect multiplied. Especially when "bad" people take them they just become even more of an asshole, or dare I say when stupid people take them they just revel in the intoxication. You just have to read the old research literature on LSD like stuff from James Fadiman to understand that these are extremely dangerous substa…

“This isn’t something you can do on your own” I’m gonna have to push back here. Go rent a cabin in the woods and eat some mushrooms and I guarantee you can work thru issues on your own.

I used to think like that, then I met someone who's best friend committed suicide while under the influence of psilocybin mushrooms. Psychedelics are powerful, and it is irresponsible to suggest, let alone guarantee, that they will benefit everyone.

Re: Paul Stamets on the interrelationship among mushrooms, consciousness, and nature

#47

Post by wavefunction »

jatgoodwin wrote: post #41

The problem with psychedelics is they only make you "more" of what you are. It's the spotlighting effect multiplied. Especially when "bad" people take them they just become even more of an asshole, or dare I say when stupid people take them they just revel in the intoxication. You just have to read the old research literature on LSD like stuff from James Fadiman to understand that these are extremely dangerous substa…

While your post has some truth I have to reject your general premise that an individual can't derive any value without some sort of formalized framework. It's simply not true.

Re: Paul Stamets on the interrelationship among mushrooms, consciousness, and nature

#48

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

akvadrako wrote: post #33
trabant00 wrote: post #9

I'm sorry but this is just hippy nonsense. It's not the lack of mental integration into nature that is stopping us from taking care of the enverionment. And you don't need to trip on mushrooms to see the filth all arround us. The real issues include: not being able to stop production and consumption for obvious reasons. Energy production and distribution logistics. Understanding natural ecosystems and setting priorit…

> And you don't need to trip on mushrooms to see the filth all arround us. For you. A lot of people don't see what's around them on a daily basis, good or bad. Mushrooms can help with that since they remove a lot of the filters we have built up.

We put in filters as an adaptation to help live in such an environment. If we remove those filters for things that we can't change, won't it make everyone needlessly miserable?

Re: Paul Stamets on the interrelationship among mushrooms, consciousness, and nature

#49

Post by drewmate »

okamiueru wrote: post #34
PakG1 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds too much like Billions season 5 episode 7. Uncanny. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtJNljm1pVs

Is that clip indicative of the quality of the show?

Currently, yes. The first season was _much_ better, and there has been a decline (at first steep, then gradual and consistent) with each season since then.

This was the last episode they aired due to COVID-related production shutdown. They're supposed to finish this season and do another, but I wonder if the show might just shut down quietly at this point.

Re: Paul Stamets on the interrelationship among mushrooms, consciousness, and nature

#50

Post by marksbrown »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #48
akvadrako wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And you don't need to trip on mushrooms to see the filth all arround us. For you. A lot of people don't see what's around them on a daily basis, good or bad. Mushrooms can help with that since they remove a lot of the filters we have built up.

We put in filters as an adaptation to help live in such an environment. If we remove those filters for things that we can't change, won't it make everyone needlessly miserable?

Perhaps or it can allow you to see what is holding you back. Many assumptions are rooted below conscious thought and it can be useful to bring them to the fore.
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