Reddit’s About page doesn't include Aaron Swartz as a founder • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit’s About page doesn't include Aaron Swartz as a founder

#181

Post by sebmellen » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 1:18 PM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #141

sebmellen wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The line where free speech ends is pretty clearly delineated, and that's when it crosses over into criminal or violent action in the "world of atoms". Almost all of your examples can be prosecuted based on their direct effect on the real world (or representation of a crime, such as with child abuse videos), not the content of their speech . The difference is crucial. To take things to an extreme, if I say "all XXXX s…

It's not just a saying, the pen is truly mightier than the sword. Hitler never physically dragged a jew into a gas chamber. After 1933 he never shot someone or so much as brawled with anyone. Yet it was only words, his words, his speech, or ink on a paper, that compelled millions of people to commit some of the greatest atrocities in modern history. Words can obviously be a more powerful thing than actions. In anothe…

Hitler's orders had an extremely clear and well-traced direct effect on the physical world, borne out in the tragedies you mention. He could therefore be tried for war crimes. His actions were not free speech, they were military orders. This is not an argument against freedom of speech.

The first thing any dictator does is begin to curtail the rights of their citizenry. The first right to go is the right to free speech.

Re: Reddit’s About page doesn't include Aaron Swartz as a founder

#182

Post by luckylion » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 1:18 PM UTC

cies wrote: post #127

nickthemagicman wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that your argument is nice in theory, nonsense in practicality. Who decides what speech is hateful or violent and should be limited? You, me, Donald Trump, Joe Biden, Xi Jinping, Kim Jong Un ? How easy is it to label something as hateful and ban it? Very easy. That's the flaw in your argument, the human element. The revolution to create America had violent and hateful speech towards the British crown. P…

> I would argue that your argument is nice in theory, nonsense in practicality. Well, it already is encoded in law. Most countries prohibit hate speech and/or inciting violence, while most people consider that free speech is protected in those places. So it's already practical. > Who decides what speech is hateful or violent and should be limited? You, me, Donald Trump, Joe Biden, Xi Jinping, Kim Jong Un ? This gets…

> Well, it already is encoded in law. Most countries prohibit hate speech and/or inciting violence, while most people consider that free speech is protected in those places.

Depends. Germany for example takes a similar route as Reddit does. If you're Turkish, you're allowed to say "Germans are a dog race" when the German parliament recognize the fact that Turkey committed genocide against the Armenians (hey, fun fact, they're re-activating their ISIS-buddies to try again right now).

If a German said "Turks are a dog race", they'd be prosecuted.

Hate speech isn't outlawed, it's majority hate speech that's outlawed.

Re: Reddit’s About page doesn't include Aaron Swartz as a founder

#183

Post by carlinmack » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 1:19 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #131

throwaway_gdc wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is still plenty of racism on reddit. Look up any thread about Indian, Chinese and Romani (Gypsy) people. The Reddit admins only goes after racism when the target is people contemporary liberal media sympathize with. They only banned anti-black racist subreddits and users after the 2015 Charleston church shooting. They only banned anti-Semitic subreddits and users after the 2018 Pittsburgh synagogue shooting. Th…

How does banning those reddits only after shootings prove it is about groups liberals sympatize with? I mean it shows mostly that reddit bans after shootings.

Shootings that the contemporary liberal media highlight. We can't recall mass violence that target Asian, Romani, or global south communities because our media doesn't think it's notable enough.

Re: Reddit’s About page doesn't include Aaron Swartz as a founder

#184

Post by throwaway_gdc » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 1:19 PM UTC

ratww wrote: post #156

throwaway_gdc wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Unfortunately for them, the rest of the world is coming online and has a different view of things. We’re starting to see this with India and the EU. Reddit moderation is especially going to clash with many Europeans view on immigration from Islamic countries.

I have no idea what you're implying by that, but do you know what else clashes with "Europeans view on immigration from Islamic countries"? Views from other Europeans. We're not an homogenic bunch as you think.

I am not talking about raging far-right people. I meant the swing to the right among the general population and politicians.

https://www.thelocal.se/20200118/swedish-pm-calls-for-dramat...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A1LtmxkAYk

Re: Reddit’s About page doesn't include Aaron Swartz as a founder

#185

Post by sebmellen » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 1:21 PM UTC

cies wrote: post #160

sebmellen wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point about child abuse is ridiculous. We prohibit child abuse precisely because it is a physical act. If I said "I will whip my child 50 times", and didn't do it, that would not be child abuse. It becomes child abuse once it is a physical act. You make the faulty presumption that speech itself can be a form of abuse. This is where free speech absolutists such as myself would disagree. Speech is a protected clas…

As said, and said agian, I mention videos of abuse (not abuse itself). I will not tell you this again if you still dot get that. > To argue that child pornography is a form of speech is rather ridiculous To lawyers it is not. Again this is about the video, not the act itself. You repeatedly dont get that difference. > but there are limits on forms of expression. I cannot choose to stab people as a form of free expres…

Please see my other comment in response to you where I defend the most egregious forms of speech. Just "Ctrl-F" for "Westboro Baptist Church".

Re: Reddit’s About page doesn't include Aaron Swartz as a founder

#186

Post by future_unclear » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 1:22 PM UTC

ceilingcorner wrote: post #130

ratww wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so. If anything, Reddit is getting bigger. In my circle nobody knew what it was five years ago. Now it has effectively become mainstream, and is being (positively) quoted on TV, etc. This is actually the second time it happens. Ten years ago people also claimed that "Reddit is dying". It wasn't, it was just changing its core audience of technical users to a broader one. And now it is doing it again.

Mainstream name recognition isn’t particularly indicative of success. In my experience, Reddit is slowly eliminating anything that doesn’t conform to a west coast American view of the world. Unfortunately for them, the rest of the world is coming online and has a different view of things. We’re starting to see this with India and the EU. Best case scenario for Reddit is a link aggregator for a very narrow group, unle…

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Re: Reddit’s About page doesn't include Aaron Swartz as a founder

#187

Post by k33n » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 1:22 PM UTC

DavidVoid wrote: post #142

sebmellen wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps. I know that a number of objectively hateful subreddits were not banned because they were hateful of people "in the majority" (whatever that means). An archived copy of Reddit's "Account and Community Restrictions" from the time of the ban reads as such [0]: > While the rule on hate protects such groups, it does not protect all groups or all forms of identity. For example, the rule does not protect groups of…

> I know that a number of objectively hateful subreddits were not banned because they were hateful of people "in the majority" (whatever that means). Don't be vague, give concrete examples if you're going to make broad statements like that. > The question here veers into the territory of whether Reddit is a "publisher" or "platform". Well are subreddits "publishers" or "platforms" then? Because a lot of the hateful s…

Why do you guys always call t_d a hate sub? It was a Trump fan sub. Dedicated to positive content about Trump. It was the complete opposite of hateful, of course. Now, take the far left sub “/r/politics” which actively promotes hatred against half of the United States. Threats of violence against law enforcement abound there. Calls for actual bloodshed and violent “revolution” constantly.

Subreddits are private or public communities that all have their own rules for what can be posted. Reddit itself is a publisher. Legally speaking, they curate a collection of subreddits and publish them. Reddit (and other pro-communist and anti-American publishers like Twitter) will likely face massive legal action from the DOJ if Americans vote to give Trump a second term. I for one can’t wait to see these commies bite the dust in federal court!

Re: Reddit’s About page doesn't include Aaron Swartz as a founder

#188

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 1:22 PM UTC

ceilingcorner wrote: post #28

Reddit today is the opposite of what it was in the beginning. Unsurprising that they’d write out Swartz in their quest to be a friendly corporate face. Alas, a new competitor will replace it soon. Virtually no one has brand loyalty to Reddit and their audience is becoming narrower and narrower.

[deleted]

Re: Reddit’s About page doesn't include Aaron Swartz as a founder

#189

Post by seattledev » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 1:23 PM UTC

bosswipe wrote: post #78

I don't think Swartz was an actual reddit co-founder. Wikipedia says pg gave him the title, whatever that means. People need to cool it with the conspiracy theories about everything all the time.

He was in fact, by the language of his contract, a cofounder. He had the legal right to call himself as such even if spez and co are assholes and pretended he wasn't

Re: Reddit’s About page doesn't include Aaron Swartz as a founder

#190

Post by fastball » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 1:24 PM UTC

DavidVoid wrote: post #142

sebmellen wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps. I know that a number of objectively hateful subreddits were not banned because they were hateful of people "in the majority" (whatever that means). An archived copy of Reddit's "Account and Community Restrictions" from the time of the ban reads as such [0]: > While the rule on hate protects such groups, it does not protect all groups or all forms of identity. For example, the rule does not protect groups of…

> I know that a number of objectively hateful subreddits were not banned because they were hateful of people "in the majority" (whatever that means). Don't be vague, give concrete examples if you're going to make broad statements like that. > The question here veers into the territory of whether Reddit is a "publisher" or "platform". Well are subreddits "publishers" or "platforms" then? Because a lot of the hateful s…

Well there is /r/BlackPeopleTwitter, which generally has a lot of vitriol aimed at white people which goes wholly unchecked.

It is also the home of "country club threads", wherein you're banned from commenting unless you are a PoC or have proved yourself to be a "white ally" (initially I think it was only PoC and none of the white ally stuff, but they let them in later in response to continued backlash – also because I think many of the mods aren't actual PoC so looked even more ridiculous than it was already).